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Jumbo Ep: Giant Audio Grab Bag; Populist Economics

🕑 Added 2024-11-17 02:17:42 +0000 UTC

Comments

Niketh Gorla

Came here from the episode with destiny. good stuff.

Jacob

I’m very charmed by how Matt has a bad memory for names and an average memory for events but basically a photographic memory for args.

Autumn Fox

Libshit listener for the bants that's also a Destiny fan. On the Israel topic, prior to October 7th Destiny had no real interest in it beyond a lightly held two statism. After October 7 he's just dug into the accusations of genocide and he doesn't think the case has been proven. He thinks both sides are deluded: Israel in believing they can just take everything without getting themselves abandoned and cast out by the international community; the Palestinians in thinking that violent struggle will end up resulting in any gains for their side. He hates the leaders on all sides, Israeli government, PLO/Fatah, and Hamas. He has said if October 7th happened in the West Bank it would be completely justified from his view because that is where Israel is stealing land.

AR

Not ep related but I just discovered Matt's youtube page and really enjoyed the tutorials! Def would recommend the channel for folks looking for deeper dives on specific issues/args/data analysis.

David Cole

I’m not a Stoller completionist, is he opposed to welfare state expansion/social ownership? Being pro govt wielding power just means you’re not a libertarian. Also wielding govt power for tiny business tweaks does not a movement make, as discussed on the pod

Andy in Iowa

re: Antitrust. Matt Stoller defends his "movement" in his latest post (https://www.thebignewsletter.com/p/on-the-democratic-partys-cult-of): "And that brings me back to the learned helplessness of the Democrats. The reason the anti-monopoly movement is interesting is because we are a break from this attitude. It’s not that we are fighting Bork, it’s that we are fighting the whole notion of anti-politics itself, the idea that protest and marginalized communities are the only mechanisms for moral legitimacy. We are saying that morality is shaped by politics through the state itself." --AND-- "Most of what Khan and Kanter did involves standard antitrust claims, nothing fancy, often just classic cases where the harm is higher prices...What was really novel was that someone might actually take it upon themselves to wield power in government. That was either outrageous or inexplicable. A lot of opponents want to frame what happened as some sort of wild shift in antitrust law, but the truth is that it was more a recognition that there is antitrust law." ---- That last paragraph, after a bit of motte and bailey, does seem to grant what Matt said in this episode: "nothing fancy"!

Andy in Iowa

re: Jane's box of spaghetti. The past few weeks, our kids' school has had boxes out at the reception for the annual food drive...drop-in cans, pastas, stuffin', etc. It's possible one of those ended up in her bag. Not that you'll get a straight answer! My son once told me (re: his school day) that he traded a Pokeman card for a $3 bill, and when I asked to see it, he then said he traded that for a Gatorade, and when I asked if he had any left, he said it was in a secret fridge/safe of which only he and his teacher knew the combination!

my_dude

I wasn't going for a character comparison, but sure.

Scott

Hasan is irresponsible but Mr genocide destiny who does all of his research on Wikipedia is fine? I've known destiny since he was a starcraft streamer, he has always been an empty and awful person

Nigel C

https://bridgespodcast.podbean.com/e/ep029-matt-draft/

Mr. Mike Man

when the next episode drops on December 6th I'll fondly remember how jumbo this one was

socialist heretic

Bur it's densely packed. Lots of content.

socialist heretic

Agree w Bruenigs on politics etc. Check out recent Chapo episode on Mexico. They elected Jewish woman whose universal transfers have given them supermajorities.

Andrew Chumich

Counterpoint: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=HI1Vc4SH6co

sarah

Takes are fine, Liz, but your reporting is so powerful. Not everything has to be an opinion piece. Show people reality as best you can! Just my two cents!

TL

Right, that’s what I said

Caitlin Still

I’ve started calling it counterbullying, when people accuse you of bullying to get you to submit to theirs. Raygun did it and it got her to the Olympics 🙃

Caitlin Still

But ‘dude’ when directly addressed does not

Chiara Rohz

NGL I'm 30 mins in and this feels like actual gang back and not Matt presenting while Liz says 'I guess'. Great to hear you both bringing it! Also I love you liz and just saying I missed your vibe bringing.

Gina Burton

So glad you’ll be writing more frequently in the Atlantic. I actually thought you might be writing a book which was taking up most of your time. That would be good too!

my_dude

Certainly there's a lot of commonality. I would say key difference to me is both of them have positive projects (abandon minorities and conquer China, respectively), whereas Steven really doesn't. He's not like a Sean McDowell where you can see the machinery turning before he speaks, working out the social consequences of each word. He seems to be in it just for the love of the game.

Josh B

So he’s basically the Matt Yglesias/Noah Smith of streamers?

Josh B

Common Hobsbawm W

The Bruenigs

my experience with people who don't like you is that even if you say the most humane compassionate shit in the world they still won't be happy!

Christian Hunt

Regarding the discussion about how there should be an arg to combat the holocaust revisionist, Hobsbawm had one that might help. "Would the horror of the holocaust be any less if historians concluded that it exterminated not six millions (the rough and almost certainly exaggerated original estimate) but five or even four? What if the nine hundred days of the German siege of Leningrad (1941-44) killed a million or only three quarters or half a million by starvation and exhaustion? Indeed, can we really grasp figures beyond the reality open to physical intuition? What does it mean to the average reader of this page that out of 5.7 million Russian prisoners of war in Germany 3.3 million died?"

LP3

Tattoo that says in gothic script “Hello Ladies and Gentlemen” on the left arm & “Adios, Mofo” on the right arm

haz

there’s nothing you can do to convince people committed to misunderstanding you

my_dude

Destiny made a leftward shift in 2014-2015, stalling out around roughly a social democratic position around 2016, about the same time he had a personal falling out with Hasan over his irresponsible coverage of current events, a general realization of the vacuousness of the twitter left (taking the position of the 'online' left and generalizing it to the real world - a common affliction), and a series of dogpiles. He also, to this day, has almost no ability to articulate a positive vision; there's not a drop of utopian blood in his body. It was disappointing at the time, as Steven has many times correctly point out pathetic it is to have your politics determined by your haters, but that's more or less what happened in my read. He's also consistently mad about unevenly applied standards of behavour *on twitter* which is a weird battle to pick. He takes this as an excuse to lash out at people, giving rise to many of his most memorable/cancelable explosions.

Otto Laakso

Well it would be interesting to hear about that on the pod!

Christian Hunt

Had a laugh at the thought of Matt Stoller haranguing people to uphold "Lina Khanism".

The Bruenigs

trust me i have had every guilty thought about my time on twitter

Josh Williams

Destiny sucks ass. Look forward to hearing you inform him.

TL

Matt is over-complicating the dude/guy thing. Dude/guys is gender neutral when directly referring to the person(s) you’re speaking to (e.g. “Dude, that’s crazy,” “Hey guys, let’s do this”) but not in the singular when referring to someone. “This guy,” “that dude,” implies the individual is a man.

Otto Laakso

Has this experience made you reflect on the fact that you (and Matt) were accused of bullying people on Twitter? Because this was most certainly the view in some circles, rightly or wrongly. Has it made you wonder if you made some people less eager to share their takes online?

Jacob

I think Matt said it’s coming out end of November…maybe the 28th?

The Bruenigs

bullying works, as they say!

Norman X. Picklestein

is this destiny interview online anywhere?

Abby

Matt’s take on gentle parenting content would be enjoyable

TC

Wait was the twitter bullying really why you (Liz) have been publishing so infrequently at the Atlantic lately? That shit sucks man, your takes are always worth reading even if I disagree.