Devon Hexx Books
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On Haremlit and Relationships
🕑 Added 2024-07-24 16:33:29 +0000 UTCI figure with the beginning of part two (for those of you in the Super Fan tier) we're far enough along that I can ask a question to my readers about one of the main reasons I chose to write this novel. To do that, I'm going to have to go deep into character development and why I have made some of the choices I've made. No spoilers, and this is a little long. If you want the TL/DR, it is this: Do you think the relationships so far between Mitchell, Allora, and Lethelin are developing in a believable and satisfying way?
If you want the backstory and the reason behind this question, read on. If you don't need it, and you already know your answer, I'd love to hear it. Jump to the end and leave a comment with your thoughts.
Now, the long part:
While I enjoy the saucy nature of Haremlit and the idea of the threesomes, foursomes, and whatever-somes that come along with it, I have always been dissatisfied with how the relationships develop in almost every one of the books in this genre. At least among the ones I've read. Basically, I felt like they hop into bed way too fast and the word 'love' is tossed around like confetti at a wedding. (Remember, don't throw rice, it fucks up the birds something awful!)
So, I love me some saucy bits, but I am--at heart--a romantic. I like love, too. I have no desire to write a romance novel in the style of those aimed at female audiences, I thought I could do something a little similar but within haremlit. This is why The Onyx Throne is such an extremely slow burn.
The finished product will be more than double the length of a traditional first novel and--up to Chapter 34, which as of this post is the most recent one released on Patreon--is already close to 120k words. Just part one itself is longer than the average length of a first novel from a new author in this genre! And still, no sex. Not even a hand job or a heavy make out session. Mitchell hasn't even gotten to 2nd base!
This is not because I'm afraid to write saucy bits, or that I'm shying away from it. Throne will not be FtB. I have published some extremely explicit erotica stories under some different names, some of which I can't even publish on Amazon for risk of being banned outright, and the quality of my love scenes were all well reviewed. Especially by my female readers, which I take as very high praise, indeed. (If you want to know why, check out reddit.com/r/menwritingwomen . Some of the stuff men put to paper about women is... Well, it's fucking awful. 'She breasted boobily,' is a sentence that exists and that was written by a dude about a woman.)
No, gentle friends, the reason there has been no sex yet is that I want it to be earned. While there is a definite place for the haremlit that has the MC and the LIs bumping uglies by chapter three, saying I love you in chapter four, and preggers by chapter seven, that isn't what I wanted. I've read those books, I've enjoyed some of them, but they weren't scratching that itch for me that I needed scratched. Those didn't feel like love to me, it felt like an intense and passionate fling. Fun, exciting, hot as hell, but ultimately meaningless. So I asked myself if I could create a haremlit that portrays the kind of relationships that have more than a passing resemblance to love.
To that end, I have tried to build the relationship between Mitchell, Allora, and Lethelin slowly and with deliberate choices. They take time to come to terms with their feelings for one another. Allora especially has things she is working through. There are things she tries to hide, even from herself. Things that must be revealed if her and Mitchell are to have a chance.
Mitchell isn't ready for the harem either, despite what he thinks. He has to be a better man. He has to become the leader they need him to be, and show that he has what it takes to survive and protect what's his. He is fine for that task on Earth, with Earth problems, but he's not fine for the task on Tewadunn. He can't just show up on scene and say 'Yo, I'm the chosen Chad. Who's first to bounce on this Chad dick?' More than their love, he needs their respect. You can love someone and pity them for their weakness and ineptitude at the same time. Through no fault of their own, either. That is not the kind of love that wins a harem. And, if you're reading this, that means you didn't skip to the end. To reward your patience, here's a bit of a snippet about the next harem member: Her name is Slyph. Shhh! Don't tell the others!
And Lethelin, as I mentioned in a comment in another post, has to learn to rely on others and allow herself to be cared for. She has to take this situation seriously and recognize that she's stronger with Mitchell and the other members than alone. That there is value beyond coin in working for the greater good, for something bigger than herself.
And all of this is just in the first book. There are two more books planned, and the harem will grow. The women most of all are complicated creatures. They were designed from the outset with the goal of making them feel real and with desires, motivations, and lives that have nothing to do with the Mitchell. Slowly, they're drawn into his orbit and they face the threats together. Allora, admittedly, a little less so since Mitchell is her mission, but there is a lot of pain and trauma behind her purple eyes that she has to sort through. And Mitchell was designed to have potential, but he will have to work harder than any of them in order to become someone truly worthy of their love and respect.
Rather than sex, I have built in small moments of tenderness and intense emotion. Mayhap, gentle friends, you remember some of these scenes. The first true one was Allora sitting by Mitchell's side all night, exhausted, as Mitchell's body completed the absorption of the heart stone. She refused to sleep, choosing instead to watch over him until he awoke.
The second such scene is when the cekip nearly blows the top of Mitchell's head off. After he's healed and about to fall asleep, he asks Allora if she'll stay with him, and she responds with a simple, "Always." (This scene was and remains especially emotional for me, as I was processing a recent break-up when I wrote it.)
Allora then comes to Mitchell's room in the bathhouse in Chapter 23. A quiet conversation. The first real, friendly, warm conversation they've had in the entire story up to that point. A shared laugh and a touch. And in that scene, Allora cracks just a little bit, for the first time. She asks Mitchell to call her Lora.
And then there is the scene when Mitchell dissects the flows. If you haven't gotten that far in the story, don't worry, it's coming. You'll see what I mean.
With Lethelin, it's developing along a different path and some of their big moments are yet to come. But now that you know what I'm talking about, you'll recognize them when you read them, I think.
But all of that is to say that I am attempting to have them fall in love with each other. Not because the story needs it to happen, or because everyone is hot, but because they actually do come to love, cherish, and need each other as they face the challenges before them. Naturally, there is some plot armor here, otherwise it wouldn't be a harem, but I am trying to inject genuine emotions into this story so that, when the sex finally does happen, when their love is consummated, you know that it is right. You know that Mitchell has earned their love and respect and he truly understands and appreciates them as well. That you smile to yourself and in your mind you're thinking "fuckin' A, man. Fuckin' A!"
Maybe I'm being overly optimistic with my skills at the keyboard, or over-estimating what readers of this genre want and enjoy, but--at least on the latter point--I don't think so. That's what I'm banking on, anyway. That there are enough readers who want ribeye steak instead of the Banquet TV dinner Salisbury steak. Don't get me wrong, I was a poor kid in the 80s and 90s, and I've eaten more TV dinner's than I care to admit. Those Salisbury steaks have a special place in my heart. But they're not ribeye cooked over a grill.
Which brings me to the question: Am I succeeding thus far? Do you feel a bit of that emotion that Mitchell feels as he holds her hand in the inn? Did you feel some of Allora's pain as Mitchell stalked off after he swore his oath? Did that simple 'Always' convey the deeper meaning behind the words that it was intended to convey? I know how it sounds and feels in my head, but I can't assume that you're taking it the same way. So I would love to know if, in your opinion, I'm succeeding or failing in my goal? And, maybe, should I even have that as a goal in the first place, considering it's something almost no one actually does in this genre? And if it's not coming across as I'd hoped, what could I be doing better?
If you've read all that, and you've got a minute, I've love to hear your thoughts.
Comments
DevonHexx
Yeah, I understand. We all view stuff like that through our own lenses. As the author, all I can do is assure that at no point in the building of Allora, the plot, and the individual scenes was sadism any part of what Allora and Revos are doing. Revos is a bit callous towards other people but even he isn’t a sadist. You can think of him as a utilitarian. He wouldn’t train any student in magic like that normally but Allora has asked him to accelerate the process. He doesn’t enjoy it, takes no pleasure in it, but agrees that it is the most effective way to achieve their goals. I think of it more like physical therapy after some sort of injury. The therapist is going to push you, hurt you, make you cry; they give you aches and pains and make you feel awful. But they have to push you through the pain for the healing to work. People can hate their therapists too, but they also understand that the therapist doesn’t enjoy hurting them or making them do another round of stretching and muscle coordination exercises. But if the person hopes to heal as best they can they have to go through it, fight through the pain now so they can walk again later. That is what Allora and Revos are doing with Mitchell. They have years of work to accomplish in the span of weeks. Their enemies don’t care that Mitchell might not be ready. So they have to push. Mitchell understands it and goes through the torment of it because he knows it’s his best chance. Given that this is an advanced beta read, it would probably be good to maybe add something in there that explains that before the book goes to print. Thanks for the insight!
hawkshe .
This is embarrassing and frustrating, but I checked chapter fifteen and it turns out I had somehow skipped that chapter. Considering I’ve only started reading on RR in the last week or so and the app is fairly new, I'm hoping one of those is responsible and it won't happen again after I'm more used to, but regardless it did this time. Now I’m stuck trying to decide if I should read the chapter out of order, commit to skipping it or give this story a break and start over later when rereading it from the beginning won’t be a chore. Regardless of what I decide for that, this does undercut the validity of my opinion of Allora and his relationship a bit since I apparently missed a relationship building chapter between them. That being said, even if I didn't miss it I likely wouldn’t be her biggest fan. She may dislike hurting him and it could be argued to be necessary, but I’ve always had difficulty looking past the actions to the why on this sort of thing and I tend to only ignore the actions after equal pain has been caused to the original person responsible. To give an example from my real life that might help clarify my perspective on this, once after I was punished by my mom as a kid I activated parental controls on the tv and then locked out all her favorite channels so she couldn’t watch her favorite shows while I was gone with my dad that weekend. I still remember my dad getting a call while we were on the road with my mom mad, demanding to know the password and me refusing to give the password. My dad reminded me that I had to deal with her when the weekend ended didn't change my mind either. I had been punished and felt it only right to punish my mom right back. I don't actually remember why I had been punished that time to be honest, but I'm sure my mom had her reasons, but I didn't care about those reasons as much as the punishment itself in a similar way that Alloras reasons don't matter as much as the pain she's causing the mc.
DevonHexx
I think it was chapter 15 or so but I’ll have to go back and check. It wasn’t an attack, it was an accident in how the cekip was meant to be used. I’ll go back and check. And as far as Allora being his enemy, she very much isn’t. The training routine is rough but not because she wants it to be, but rather because it has to be because they don’t have time. They are up against a clock. She didn’t enjoy how she’s needed to train him, it tears her up inside. But she can’t see any other way. If he doesn’t learn he will die. The only think she lied about was what the heart stone might do to him. He was angry at her in the beginning. Who wouldn’t be? He had an absolute shit introduction to her world. But that was not her doing at all. The training regime is purely out of necessity. He needs to learn as much as he can as fast as he can or none of them will survive.
hawkshe .
Their relationship seems believable, but I've got my doubts that Mitchell and Alloras relationship will end up satisfying, at least for me. At the moment I see Allora as Mitchell's tormenter more than his romantic interest. Perhaps that will change, but I doubt it, especially since I've always disliked the enemies to lovers trope and this has a lot of similarities in that Allora is someone that's hurt him a lot and will likely continue to hurt him. Honestly, if she wasn't pining for him at the same time she was harshly training him I'd feel better about this relationship since she hadn't come to care about him yet and stopped hurting him once she started to care about him. The only time I've enjoyed the enemies to lover trope was in a book where the mc never fully trusted the women who used to be his enemies and was always ready to kill them if they stepped out of line, even after they were added to the harem. That always felt more realistic to me, trust is hard to gain, especially when someone has hurt you before. I do like the general idea you’re going for with your novel. I frequently wish Haremlit took the aspect of falling in love more seriously and it was more romantic and moving. Its something I've mostly come to accept in the genre, but that doesn't make it my preference and its definitely not the only thing I want to exist in the genre. I do love the progress that's being done with Lethelin and how her relationship is developing with Mitchell. I like how both her and him are individually developing as characters as well. Also, what chapter is this cekip attack you mentioned? I don't remember anything about that and I'm wondering if I accidentally skipped a chapter somewhere along the way. I read on RR first and when I reached the last chapter there moved to this site instead, so it's possible I may have skipped something in the transition.
DevonHexx
Thanks so much for that detailed answer. It will help me plotting things going forward.
Josh
I very much appreciate that you're combining a quick pace of plot events with a slow but ever-present burn of developing romance. There are stories that understand "slow burn" but they apply it in excess to absolutely everything, including plot events. (I think some stories do it because they have a little too much fun teasing their audience, and others do it because they have a paucity of plot ideas and have to carefully ration them.) I'm glad that's not your style. The relationship between Marshall and Allora seems extremely believable and well-paced, and the slow development feels great and makes the touching little moments and hurdles all the more powerful. She's been through a lot, she's dealing with events upon which kingdoms hang in the balance, and a loving and intimate relationship is rightly far from the forefront of her mind. That's going to take time, and it isn't the foremost thing in Marshall's mind either. It's wonderful to see their relationship build. The little bits of tender are trying to start kindling something. :) The relationship between Marshall and Lethelin seems largely believable as well. Lethelin is a little more inclined to move faster in physical intimacy, and it's reasonable that different people jump into things at different rates. I also really appreciate that Lethelin is simultaneously fulfilling some of the personality stereotypes of rogueish characters while averting others. And inclination towards physical intimacy and inclination towards emotional closeness are two different things, and it's wonderful to see different characters whose relationships seem likely to proceed in different ways. And the third leg of that triangle matters a great deal too, and pacing is important there as well. In a story like this, the relationships between potential love interests are absolutely critically important, and other stories often neglect that. And it's absolutely realistic and reasonable and expected that there'd be conflict and friction there, potentially even major conflict. (It's always sad to read a story in which there's conflict to resolve between the main character and potential love interests and that gets a lot of page time, but no meaningful or hard-to-resolve conflicts between the potential love interests.) The relationship between Allora and Lethelin started off well, in terms of skepticism towards each other mixed with developing respect. It seemed very much like the same kind of slow-ish burn that the other two relationships have, and that felt satisfying and encouraging. The most recent drama between them (at the spa-hotel) feels...a little sitcom-esque, and seems like very low emotional intelligence on both of their parts. It's disappointing (though somewhat understandable given what she's been through) how Allora is handling Lethelin's interest in Marshall. It's more disappointing how Lethelin is, seemingly uncharacteristically, just taking it and treating Allora as the only one who gets agency in that. As it stands, I am eagerly hoping for the point where more communication takes place about this. And I do hope that, when Marshall finds out what's been going on, he's not quick to forgive about it. That doesn't mean it'll be easy to resolve, not by any means, but it's much more interesting to see conflict that's hard-to-resolve because it's a genuine conflict with differing needs or mindsets or damage, versus conflict that's hard-to-even-start-resolving because someone thought they could just unilaterally shut down all communication about it with physical threats and have that stand. From a pacing perspective, it doesn't need to get solved any faster than it otherwise would have; if anything, it feels better and more satisfying to have a long-standing source of genuine friction and need for character development when it feels like the friction itself is the primary problem rather than the poor communication about it. That kind of problem really stands out and elevates stories, in a genre that's saturated with more paper-thin sitcom drama; it feels a lot more like "these people seem intelligent and competent and they're dealing with genuinely hard problems to which the answers aren't obvious or easy". (And it'd also be an opportunity to explore more of their perspectives and their respective past damage.) Also, to be clear, I think that relationship is still *well written* artificially-escalated-drama-caused-by-poor-communication. :) That aside: it's really enjoyable seeing how people's individual character development and relationship development intertwine, and the ways in which relationships draw out different aspects of a character, bring them to the forefront, and explore them. The emotional high points of the story feel powerfully warm and enjoyable; the emotional low points feel viscerally painful alongside the characters. I'm really enjoying this.
DevonHexx
The boobily breasts was not a harem book, just something a dude wrote that almost became a meme.
Trevayne
I appreciate the discussion and so far I think you are succeeding. I don't mind the slower pace because there is a lot of faster paced stuff out there. Some of it is decent, some of it is more questionable, and I don't think I have read anything as cringeworthy as your reddit example. That said, I am enjoying the slower paced development.
