Post "UNCUT - Unification I & II (TNG S5E7-8) | Star Trek Journey 214" by "Target Audience" from patreon

AzoriusMage

😭😭😭😭😭😭😭

Jason Aud

Remember there was a Romulan in Star Trek 5 as well. The Human, Klingon and Romulan representatives on Nimbus 3....not that she was Pardak but still "around" then at a distance. Also Pardak was the voice of the Keeper in TOS (though voice modded) so right there at the beginning with Spock as well as Commodore Mendez in "The Menagerie" two parter.

Worf and Riker Ride Again

Me too, I think the release order over here was all over the place!

A G

Ahhhh goood. I didn't get this notication

paultardspambot .

Even worse

Leyton Jay

re: Sela & Data She was beamed onboard the Enterprise, was taken up to the Observation Lounge and was later taken back down to the transporter room. Whether Data saw her or not, he would've heard about her.

Leyton Jay

Until you guys did this, I never knew Unification and Undiscovered Country came out so close together and I would never have imagined that Unification was first. Because of Spock's comments I always assumed the movie came first. Yet again you've made me recontextualise my favourite thing and I thank you for it.

Billy T. Riker

Normally Josh, I would say you're nitpicking but I agree this is a disjointed episode... maybe having 2 different directors made them tone it down. Nimoy & Stewart carried this episode, they blew the Sela reveal & the "bookends" were very rushed. That said, this is still a forever rewatch for the Spock continuity. Alex's points are kinda how I feel, fan service is tricky but it works with the mind-meld. The technical aspects are where I'm more willing to overlook due to the importance of the character arc. Great reaction & make some excellent points I didn't realized watching it.

GeorgeReevesSupermanFan

When do the next order of shoulder pads come in. 😅😅😅😅😅🤣🤣

Worf and Riker Ride Again

This is an A from me - mostly fan service and a slow setup but some great character moments and a great finale with a massive addition to the overall lore of Star Trek

Worf and Riker Ride Again

On point 1 - they were trying to subvert Vulcan under the guise of ‘reunification’ rather than conquer it with brute force

Jovet

@Sherpa Jones Writers have to make hard decisions all the time. "Show me, don't tell me" doesn't always work very well. Sometimes having dialogue be the exposition is better. Time is limited, money is limited, even suspension of disbelief is limited.

Jovet

I think fan service is fine.... as long as it fits unassumingly within the universe that's been built.

Angelaina Marie

Star Trek V.V: Search For The Red Stapler.

Jovet

By taking over the planetary governing body.

Jovet

I thought it was 2000 troops.

Andy Frankham-Allen

Yeah, I live in the UK, so that's why I got to see Trek VI first.

paultardspambot .

As far as the surveillance state thing 1. The romulans actually knew they were there pretty much from the beginning. 2. Fanwank- assume the implanted universal translators can also fake biosigns and they hid their transporter some how. 3. But yeah, the fact they were immediately found makes it seem like Picard didnt have much of a plan, would have made more sense, they could have throne in some dialogue like "Despite the heavy security state of the Romulans, intelligence reports that their rampant military spending has left the majority of their civilians relatively impoverished, and while any part of the city could be under surveillance at any time, the Romulans dont have the resources to survey every corner. But actually it looked like the Romulans had things pretty damn well survielled, which makes one wonder how well any of Spock's resistance cell is going to survive, given Parnek knows them all. yeah, this one is actually pretty sloppy when you think about it. It would have worked better it instead of Being Romulus, it took part on some other planet in the romulan empire where presumably the surveillance isnt quite as flawless. 4. cant do this without spolier territory, but there may actually be a logical reason why th romulans and the spy service especially would be distrustful of turning over too much of their power to technology

paultardspambot .

So I'm late to the game, but there a couple things that bothered me about this episode. 1. They said there were 5,000 romulan troops on those vulcan ships that were destroyed. 5,000? That wouldn't be enough to hold the capital city, let alone the whole planet. Even assuming Vulcan is largely desert and post Sundering has a low population where Vulcans are way over represented in Starfleet and the federation, 5,000 is just a ludicrous number. I mean, I guess to fanwank it I can pretend that was just the first strike force and there was an armada of cloaked ships behind them, but still. 2. Sela didnt even bother to leave a slow moving death trap and hope things worked out to plan. Nope, she just left them UNGUARDED. With a superhuman andriod and a computer panel with access to their system. I get not killing them immediately, the romulans would want to interogate Spock and Picard and study Data, but to just leave them unintended in an office with a locked door and a computer panel? During the absolute most important phase of the plan, just after Sela has explained it all in true Bond villian style? I mean, I'm surprised Josh and Alex didnt call out the hokey writing. For me everything here worked (including part 1) but the end of part 2 was just such hack writing it took me out of suspension of disbelief, and usually I am very good at "fanwanking" or making up my own reasonable details to explain things other may nitpick but to me work fine as long as you realize adding every detail for completion sake wouldnt improve the story. The only was this survived my head canon is to conclude that Sela was actually a shit commander promoted over her ability for whatever reason, maybe the whole "half human so its a propaganda victory thing" and some other romulan actor/faction devised this whole plan to make her fail, including the low troop numbers (and she proved she wasnt up to the position when her overconfidence lead to her leaving her enemies to sit there "feeling defeated"

Paul Noad

Yes, the Romulans and the Federation had no contact for 53 years. I would imagine that most of the intel they have gathered was just in the 3 years since the Romulans returned. My problems with this episode are really just about the Romulan plot and the Sela character. The plot to take over Vulcan with just a few ships and a couple thousand troops is far too overt and risky for the Romulans, especially since it would trigger a full scale war with the Federation. Sela's inclusion feels unnecessary. She doesn't serve a purpose other than just being the general in charge. Being Tasha's daughter is completely irrelevant and isn't even referenced. Everything about Spock is great. While some moments may come off feeling like fan service, the way the episode shows Spock's character progression more than justifies his inclusion. I don't think of it as a TNG episode that happens to include Spock. I think of it as using TNG to continue his story. His interactions with Picard and Data are just the cherry on top. Overall this episode is a mixed bag. I think I may have to agree though, this is a C + fan service = S. It would be great if it didn't rely on the fan service, but I'm not upset either. This is why some people have separate subjective vs objective ratings for things.

Paul Noad

It's all about balance. Story, plot, continuity, character consistency, etc are still the priority. A lot of elements are called fan service because they either don't serve a purpose beyond pure entertainment, or they actively undermine one of the priorities. The inclusion of Spock being fan service is debatable. Yes, there was no overt reason to include him in TNG, but I think of this as TNG continuing Spock's character arc rather than Spock just being thrown in to TNG for no reason. Sela however is pure fan service. Her being Tasha's daughter hasn't really served any purpose to the story or plot other than to explain why she's being played by Denise Crosby. It basically comes down to instant gratification vs overall purpose. I want my food to taste good, but I should probably eat more than just cake.

Travis Boyle

Overall like the episodes. But the Romulans plan makes no sense. How does a few ships of Romulans take over a planet of billions of Vulcans.

River Acheron

Voyager mostly gets no love from me. Thats not to say I don't love certain episodes. However its the weakest show out of the Big Three of the 90s/00's

jon bolton

Overall these get graded A from me, i admit i have never not watched them both together. I'm surprised you didn't predict you might see Sela when you discovered they were going to Romulus, i love her just as much as her mother, she is my favourite Romulan.I'm glad that a few things Spock said have got you excited for what might happen in my favourite Star Trek movie, which you might have even seen by now.

Nicholas Jennings

I don't know that the techno babble hurts Voyager any. Though I love Voyager, it's the series with the weakest writing... not counting Discovery.

Tim b

She was fine in Yesterday's Enterprise.

Tim b

Well, if you happened to live outside of the U.S. the chance was slim to none that those two line up. To me ST6 was old by the time I saw unification. If you see it the other way around though the credits of ST6 probably hit even harder.

Ian Westcott

IMO, Season 6 is better than Season 5. I think Season 5 picks up towards the end, but we're about to head into a particularly boring section of S5.

Ian Westcott

Doesn't bode well for the future, especially series like Voyager which are SO technobabble-heavy.

Ian Westcott

Her involvement in the final 20 minutes are pretty much why I gave Unification II a "B" rating. Not just for her acting, but for her character's stupidity. Though I guess, with her in charge of this "security," and given how much she really sucks at it, no wonder the Federation knew as much of the Romulans as they did, to Josh and Alex's surprise.

Ian Westcott

Really, the only "spoilers" are that we know are first that Spock and McCoy are still alive by TNG times, and second that Spock got Kirk involved in peace negotiations for the Klingons, with results that were traumatic enough that he decided to involve NO ONE else when he tried to open peace negotiations with the Romulans.

Jeffrey

Unification part 1 aired first on November 4, 1991. Star Trek 6 was released December 6th. And nothing in Unification can possibly be considered a spoiler when the expectation of the movie producers was that you probably already saw the TV episodes

Andy Frankham-Allen

The idea of watching this episode before Trek VI has never even occurred to me before... I may be misremebering, but I feel sure I watched Trek VI before Unification way back when (that it when they first came out), and I have never seen these episodes as a promotion for the film. I hope that Spock's dialogue drops don't spoil any elements of the film for Josh and Alex.

penoyer79

Season 5 is def a swingy season.

Bantha Fodder

Also, I will go on record saying Denise Crosby is a pretty bad actress in every role she is given in Star Trek.

Bantha Fodder

You didn’t discuss mark Lenard’s scene hardly at all, possibly because you talked though much of it. What an amazing last scene for this actor/character. That scene alone elevates part one to at least a B.

Gary Leyh

Thanks for the two part drop! I so enjoyed re-watching these episodes with you! Happy New Year!

Boston_Mike

I’m not being critical of Josh not recalling exactly what Spock said in his reveal at the end of part 1 but, as for fan service it is worth noting he said “indeed”. A word Spock said often on TOS and is as associated with Spock as fascinating and logical.

River Acheron

My only suggestion is, not to speak so much over certain parts. It doesn't distract me at all, but you are missing important plot points. You have downgraded certain eps for not explaining when it fact it is explained that you missed. I have noticed you talk and get distracted when Engineering convos happen w/ the technobable. Trust me, it is important sometimes. ^_^

Raphael Gaytan

I don’t know if anyone noticed…but Captain Picard wincing as he touches his Romulan ear is the very same gesture that Captain Kirk makes when he touches his Romulan ear in “The Enterprise Incident”! Awesome callback!

Sam Langanke

I think the dose makes the poison. There were not many TOS callbacks in TNG. No comparison to the Vader and Skywalker overload in Star Wars.

Sherpa Jones

Something I try to remember when using critical thinking to evaluate media like this, is that while you or I might really enjoy more nuance and creativity, most of the audience might struggle to follow along with names or titles that are difficult to parse out. Another example is the exposition scenes, where a character in the know has to explain something of the plot to a character in the dark. It is somewhat unnatural but it helps the audience put the pieces together. Sometimes I consider it lazy writing, other times I understand that it is presented at the level the audience can track with.

Sherpa Jones

1:42:05 you were speaking over some parts of the scene where the smuggler ship was destroyed, so I'm not clear if you fully understood Riker's intentions. After letting the ship take the Enterprise's shields down by a significant percentage, Riker orders Worf, very specifically, to target ONLY the smuggler ship's forward phaser array. Worf's precise targeting destroyed the array, but as Geordie reported, the ship was heavily laden with a cargo of volatile weapons. The destruction of the phaser array sent a blowback of power surges through the ship which we see other ships withstand all the time, subject to significant damage control and repairs before being operational again. It is heavily implied the smuggler ship is carrying an unsafe quantity of weapons and/or not transporting them according to standard safety precautions, which lead to a cook-off of the munitions and destruction of the ship. Riker wanted disable and detain the ship, not destroy it. He took all precautions to do so in a very volatile situation, but the other ship wasn't prepared to sustain even moderate combat damage. Riker was also not happy with the destruction. I see Riker as having performed his duty well, demonstrating patience and critical thinking. The other ship violated a Federation installation, refused to comply with orders to communicate, and powered up weapons. This was somewhat of a Kobayashi Maru moment for him. Like when a cop wants to make an arrest but the suspect pulls a gun and starts shooting.

Joe Concepts

I hate the very notion that "fan service," whatever that is, is a bad thing. The idea that giving fans of a franchise something they want is somehow less artistic or something is stupid. When you fear fan service 100% you get something like the Star Wars sequels where we don't get to see our heroes all together, fighting the bad guys. (Though I am not really a hater of those films.) The very existence of these particular episodes and movies IS for the fans to come back to something they love. I kind of like the idea that Spock is in this one as part of a larger plot that isn't just all about him.

Jovet

Don't be too hard on yourself. Let Alex and Josh! haha

Chris S.

I did too. Actually, it would have made sense for ST VI to come out first IMHO

Chris S.

Yes!

Shawn Indigo

I think season 5 is the best of the 7.

Edweirdo

I am a writer. I am not any good or anything but I enjoy it. I noticed at one point, when I was making up names for things in SciFi settings, it was usually a 2 syllable word where each syllable was just some weird sound like komtik or keslick or darmonk. After I matured as a writer (I still suck, but am a bit better), I noticed that seemed extremely lazy. So, whenever I hear those types of names in "professional" writing, I always feel disappointed. It just seems low effort and amateur. I am surprised to hear it so often in some of these episodes.

Jon1701

Whilst there are some good (and a few great) episodes, this season ranks below 3, 4 and 6 for me. Better than 1, 2 and 7. But slap bang in the middle of all the seasons. A mid season with far too many mid episodes. Not awful, but not great. 🖖

Jovet

@James Hoffmann Alas, we'll never know.

Jovet

@Steve Boshear I think the lady was suspicious because Picard just asked her when the office opens, which probably isn't normal Romulan social behavior.

Jovet

Worf singing was supposed to be funny. Riker flirting with the pianist was supposed to be unsurprising.

Jovet

The waiter in the seedy bar was Zakdorn, too.

Jovet

I think all the seasons have ups and downs.

Paul Hess

Data is Sela’s pesky wabbit that does something creative each episode and foil’s Sela’s extensive plans despite her entire empire of resources to bring to bear. (This is a knock on Sela’s character being such a one dimensional villain like a cartoon villain that gets foiled in cute ways each episode and says “drats”).

Aaron Wells

@Derek It would probably take millions. And that's after entire fleets of warships get blown away trying to clear a path to a central Federation world.

Josef Nitervol

I love the two floral arrangements in the Proconsul office the flower is exotic, and I can't remember the name. The whole office had some great art.

Josef Nitervol

Agree were 4 had more consistency on the whole

Darren Seal

I personally prefer season 6 over s5

Josef Nitervol

I understand the different grades with this 2-part episodes for sure I think it is a B- part one and part two A+. My favorite is the scene with Sarek along with Spock and Picard. That mind meld at the end was great I give it a A+

Pokeysaurus

That's just the surface. That sort of spying had been around for centuries. In the 70s, the USSR knew what payloads our planes were carrying because they had runway-watchers who would time how long it took to lift off.

Pokeysaurus

I'd put my S5 top-10 against any other season of TNG, it just has way more mediocre episodes than anything after S2.

Josh (Target Audience)

Yes, in a perfect world we wouldn’t have any distractions throughout the reaction.

James Hoffmann

2000 soldiers would be enough to seize the Vulcan government sure but not enough to hold the planet. Vulcan resistance would rise up. The Federation would send forces to liberate Vulcan. The Federation would blockade Vulcan to prevent Romulan reinforcements. The 2000 Romulan soldiers would be cut off and facing hundreds of thousands of Vulcan resistance fighters, not to mention a Federation liberation force. They would never be able to hold the planet long term.

James Hoffmann

Yeah if they had said it was 200,000 Romulan soldiers, that would have been more realistic. And yes, Sela says that she is counting on Vulcan rolling over and accepting reunification once the Romulan forces take over the Vulcan government and entrench themselves. I still think the Federation would not roll over so easily. It would weaken the Federation too much.

Derek Orr

I just assume they missed some decimal places in translation and it was actually 200,000 troops or something

Derek Orr

Just pretend they missed a few decimal points in the dialogue translation

Derek Orr

I think the idea was that vulcans would just kinda roll over since it was their own species rather than true foreigners/aliens invading like Klingons or something. Perhaps an interesting analogy when thinking about russia invading Ukraine and initially expecting them to roll over easier because of how closely related Ukraine was with russia/ussr etc….rather than say if Japan invaded Ukraine I honestly just prefer to assume they missed a few decimal points in the translation and it was actually a few different groups of a dozen ships each and like 200,000 troops or something a tiny bit more realistic

Joshua Hartman

I didn't realize it came out before TUC. I knew they came out around the same time, but I didn't actually look at the air dates. So to quote Ron Perlman in Looney Tunes: Back in Action: "I withdraw my objection."

Shanelle

I also think season 5 is an up and down season

Derek Orr

Yes and no…talky is a core star trek thing…and something nu trek tends to forget and just goes into pew pew action battles etc.

Derek Orr

Which also ties in with st6 being a larger “end of the cold war” story

Derek Orr

They didn’t really have much time together to delve into that kind of chit chat

Spencer Loften

Finally someone else who doesn't think season five is the greatest thing ever made.

Darren Seal

Yeah I can agree with that too. I think part 1 is the stronger part and I don’t have many complaints at all - it’s part 2 where I have a few but I excuse those for the stuff that works.

Sam Langanke

Because episodes and movie were released much later in Europe because of dubbing and stuff it never came to my mind that this was a promotion and teaser for Star Trek VI. That obviously shows how much TNG had risen in the favor of the fans at this point. After the fail of Star Trek V it even surpassed the passion for the original crew. I remember having not very high expectations of the movie before I watched it. So I was quite surprised how good it was.

David Marcoot

without the fan service it’s a C. the stand out being the bar. i have long felt this episode was lacking.

Jon1701

Some cool stuff but a bit dull. Like Season 5 overall 😂

Timothy Nikiforovs

Love the Worf shirt So I'm gonna be a little less generous than most and give this a B for both parts. I think both parts suffer from positives and negatives balancing each other out. Part 1 I agree is mostly just setup and ends up being rather dry and talky, but there's nothing too egregious about it. There was some fun stuff like the junkyard guy and Data staring at Picard like a fucking psychopath. The scene with Sarek was good and very well acted, but also sad that's the last thing we see of Sarek's life. The klingon captain doesn't bother me much, he's just there. I figure he's just some loser Gowron sent so if they get caught by the romulans he isn't losing a good commander. Part 1 has some A tier stuff, some C tier stuff, and a lot of B tier stuff. Part 2 is a different story. It has some legitimately S tier scenes, and some D tier scenes/story elements. While Sela had some decent scenes like getting annoyed at Spock's logic, it was disappointing that she was so easily outmaneuvered. Data's nerve pinch was great though. The Romulan invasion plan makes no sense though. I can MAYBE forgive the 2000 troops thing if they were bringing some really big bombs along and planned to basically hold the planet hostage, but it would absolutely trigger a war, and sooner or later the Vulcans would figure out a way to outmaneuver the Romulans that they outnumber millions to 1. But then the ships were going at warp 1. Let's say Vulcan is 30 light years from the border, it'll take 3 decades to reach the planet. Sure that might not be their top speed, but salvaged cargo ships aren't outrunning a starship. They were never going to get there. The stuff on the Enterprise is also pretty forgettable. OTOH I love all the stuff with Spock interacting with Picard and Data. The juxtaposed perspectives of of these 2 very similar characters, one running away from his humanity, the other running toward it, that was a conversation that just needed to happen. Then there's the aspect of Spock being a bridge between Kirk and Picard, and in turn Picard being a bridge between Spock and Sarek. I think that final mind meld scene was a case of "show, don't tell" and executed perfectly. Nimoy showed just the right amount of emotion for the character finally learning exactly how his father felt about him. Also great to see that there are Romulans who want peace and to learn about their past. They're not all warmongers and schemers. I mean I guess they are kinda scheming, but it's for a good cause. So some strong negative and positives in part 2, and I get a higher score being given when the nostalgia is high seeing it for the first time before STVI, but in my case I think I saw VI first, and I was about 3 1/2 when this came out, plus having seen both many times, it does take that nostalgia edge off. It does end up a little boring in aggregate, but it's not without significant charms.

Timothy Nikiforovs

Picard would spend 5 seconds winding up to a ridiculously choreographed punch

Timothy Nikiforovs

I remember reading that the Nicholas Meyer really poured his heart into STVI, at one point being in tears begging for the funding necessary to make it special. The movie has it's issues, but it still would up being my second favourite trek film, so I'd say he succeeded.

Matt Everkoul

You were fortunate to have resolved the remote snafu just in time, and agreed the zoom & enhance reveal was poorly executed so that likely didn’t affect your “lack of pop” reaction. However, with that said, you were lucky - and it’s likely that there will be more cold open teasers in the future (whether TNG or a future series) where you could mangle a pop/reaction. Maybe it would be a good idea to have a pre-flight checklist to follow… are we sitting comfortably, are our phones put away, are we done messing with beverages, is the remote in a secure place where it won’t be dropped, etc? I suppose, even with the best intentions, there will still be future fumbles, but might be good to minimize those as much as possible.

tyranusfan

Re: the question you guys had about how they knew so much about Romulus and Pardek, the answer is suggested at the beginning. That long range image of Spock was taken by a Federation spy on Romulus. No doubt, as soon as the Romulans had their "we are back!" moment, Starfleet rushed spies into place to learn everything they could. During the Cold War, US agencies knew who Soviet officials were, and their habits. Vice versa for the Soviet and their spies in the US.

tyranusfan

I was thinking this morning “TA ought to do these two at the same time,” but there was no way to suggest that without spoiling so I couldn’t. Then I saw the post and was excited!

Timothy Nikiforovs

When you think about it, Picard had to twist Gowron's arm to help, and there was a good chance they'd be captured or destroyed on that mission, so he probably sent them the most expendable captain he had. But klingons are like humans in that they come in all shapes and sizes and personalities. Still, ever since I realized this is the same actor who voiced Bill from King of the Hill, I just cant unhear the voice watching this episode.

Paul

I'm a sucker for great monologues and interesting back and forth debates,no slower paced talking episodes are fine as long as the writing is good (and God damn are some future episodes written well)

Chris S.

A and J….The Junkyard manager was a Zakdorn, the species that the guy came aboard in Peak Performance was, when they did the wargames.

Chris S.

That WAS some jaw. Underbite city lol.

Carl Peterson

Some of this two parter is S worthy especially because of the fan service. I could listen to Spock talk about their philosophy and reunification all day. But the parts with the pianist beside Worf singing is justt cringe. Really bad. The make up and dialogiue was horrible. Horrible ating . Lo ve the Sarek scenes also. Very good writing of a person who is having a mental breakdown and dementia. His wife was great also. The Junk man was great. Spock, Picard, and data just walking around Romulus was very far fetched. Why not pick them up and hold them from the beginning? What was the point of waiting? Ifcan understand not liking some of the parts with the klingons and other filler. But without that then the episode does not make as much sense and loses some of it realistic sense. It is not a very realistic episode but without thoseother parts then it really is bad. This is S tier because of Spock. As far as alien species,I love the Vulcans and then the Klingons and then the Romulans . So this was great for me. There is abetter version of this in a book called Crossover but it has a different story with more TOS characters so it could not be done. But it is better.

Carl Peterson

The junkyard guy was great but the 4 armed pianist, really the whole scence, was cringe. Bad acting, bad makeup, just bad. And then the have Riker instead of Worf be the strong man against the Ferengi. What an opportunity was missed there.

Ross Townsend

I have lived for 33 years mistakenly believing Star Trek VI came out -before- this episode, (I was 9!) and only on rewatch with you guys have I realized this absolutely was a teaser for the movie. Please go back after Star Trek VI and rewatch this scene (starts 5:15 on Netflix version; your dvd versions are a few seconds behind after the intro). Spock's words about the events of the movie are so well worded, and you'll appreciate the perspective I mistakenly had for so long.

Carl Peterson

They always talk a lot especially in TNG and beyond at least before the new Star Trek movies with Kirk and crew (Kelvin).

Carl Peterson

I thought she was realistic. She thought they were from the government. I think most would be very wary of spies for the government. She did not think that they were from the federation.

Josh (Target Audience)

That had no effect, the reveal was oddly executed. We didn’t miss anything. Our reaction is the same is what it would have been without that happening. You can choose to not believe me if you want, but we explain in the discussion why it wasn’t as big a reaction as other better done moments.

Josh (Target Audience)

It’s not a spoiler

Josh (Target Audience)

There’s one more then the film

Stephen Morris

Hope you guys Watched Star Trek VI after this episode

Steve Boshear

In fact, I would guess that lady who actually voiced her suspicions to them would be the unusual Romulan. It suggests other people may have been suspicious but played it safer by keeping their distance.

James H

It’s interesting how both characters played by Malachi Throne were “false” in some way. Commodore Mendez turned out mostly to be a simulacrum projected by the Talosians, and Pardek ended up betraying his longtime friend. (And since you brought up Batman villains, Malachi Throne also played False Face, which definitely tracks.)

Steve Boshear

I think they dealt with that very fairly. Someone WAS suspicious of them immediately, but since she was just a regular Romulan civilian, she had no reason to suspect they were aliens. She instead assumed they were narcs from her own government. I thought that was very realistic. Their behavior was odd enough that they stood out, but not so obvious that randos on the street would assume they were alien spies.

Jovet

It's not a spoiler. It's a hook! At least, if you recognize the name...

Steve Boshear

Okay I lied, I couldn't put off my errands for the full two hours, so I just finished this now. Great reaction boys. You know, I was so immersed in Star Trek as a kid that I don't think it ever occurred to that this was done as a Star Trek VI promo event. I was just devouring all the Trek content I could, and my perceptions of the time between different things IRL was weaker than my understanding of the fictional Trek timeline itself.

Sam Langanke

Interesting that no one here complains about Data not talking to Sela about Tasha.

Jovet

I thought he was fine, and his character seemed very Klingon to me.

Jovet

The only thing I didn't like is Sela's lack of ambush-in-force in the caves. And they didn't arrest those people.

Column Meanie

I get that, but he’s still a Vulcan. He shouldn’t be there and the Romulans should be a little more than freaked out by that.

Jovet

@James Hoffmann I think you underestimate what 2000 troops could quickly accomplish. The main goal was to take control of the world government. 2000 troops could probably do that. You just need a strike force to let the rest of the forces in.

Sam Langanke

A planet is always just one village or city district. There is no budget for more.

startrekiborg

Wow, okay. That’s a piece of Trek lore I didn’t know. I just remember hearing behind the scenes talk where Leonard Nimoy got them to change it. He was originally supposed to hit the evil Kirk with the butt of his phaser. FYI, I don’t consider this a spoiler, since you’ve already seen the episode. If you consider behind the scenes info, on shows you’ve seen, to be spoilers, I won’t do it again.

Jovet

A hook is a hook is a hook.

Jovet

It seemed to me that when they heard he's too ill to travel, they instantly assumed that he wouldn't have an appearance.

Jovet

The Sarek scene is still so profound and amazing today. One of the best scenes in all of TNG, for sure. Maybe ST.

Jovet

And there's nothing wrong with early credits. They can be a hook just like anything else. Where it REALLY matters and needs to be a surprise, the credits are suppressed or deferred.

Jovet

That's a point about Romulan security. But I do doubt the majority of Romulans know or care who Spock is, and even fewer would actually recognize him.

Sam Langanke

The theme of these two episodes is clearly inspired by the real life Reunification of Germany which was put into effect almost exactly a year before the first part aired.

StealthMomo

As to the Riker's character thing on his interaction with the Ferengi... grabbing him and roughing him up... that was all deliberate theater. Riker knows that the Ferengi are a cowardly lot. They blow over in a stiff breeze. That tough-guy routine was a put on. And in the same situation, given the same circumstances, I could easily see Picard doing the same.

Paul

LOL at Alex not getting Josh's Jaw joke, and the befuddled side-eye as a result. Perfect.

Josh (Target Audience)

I believe that was the first filmed one, but in release order he uses it in The Naked Time which was the episode that aired before

startrekiborg

The first episode to use the Vulcan neck pinch🤏 was “The Enemy Within”, when Spock knocked out Kirk.

Richard Finch

I’m a sucker for good fan service: “In your own way, you are as stubborn as another Captain of the Enterprise I once knew.” “Then I'm in good company, sir.” Chills.

Column Meanie

They hit the nail on the head with their critique of the direction. It’s a very talky 2-parter and they needed to do more than the status quo with direction.

Column Meanie

But just too unrealistic. I just find it hard to believe that this society that seems so suspicious, secretive, and cautious by nature would be a place where Picard or Data could walk around, even disguised. Not to mention how no one bats an eye about a famous Vulcan walking around the streets of Romulus.

James Hoffmann

Probably a few but that does not matter. 2000 soldiers is not enough to hold an entire planet. The US needed more than 2000 soldiers to secure a country like Iraq and that was just one country, not a planet. Besides, the Federation would never allow Romulans to conquer Vulcan, a founding member. Starfleet would mobilize a huge fleet to liberate Vulcan. It would be war.

Scott Reeves

I was irritated when I saw ST VI, because of that hinting you mention.

Jovet

1:54:20 I thought Data and Picard walking around on Romulus was very surreal!

Jovet

How many cloaked Warbirds were accompanying those troops?

Column Meanie

Like the guys I also really enjoyed Sela and I wish we had gotten more of her in this 2-parter.

Scott Reeves

Also Jimmy James from NewsRadio, where he co-starred with a young Joe Rogan back in the mid-90s. Also co-starring Andy Dick, who guest starred in an episode of ST: Voyager.

Jovet

Yup!

Column Meanie

If you find them can you post the link??

Column Meanie

I feel like this 2 parter is a great example of an issue that Josh pointed out and something that becomes way too frequent post Season 4 TNG: talky episodes. They spend far too much time talking about things and less time DOING things. “To boldly talk about going where no one has gone before…”

Column Meanie

Guys, 6 Patron Takes for this “event” 2-parter? That’s too bad.

Column Meanie

And fucking around with the tech in the opening moments which I think is what ruined what could’ve been the greatest reaction to date. Hopefully ya boys can avoid that down the road. A lot of us were looking forward to that moment and it fizzled out.

Christopher Hayes

I don't understand why y'all keep talking about this show like it was made for streaming. 😂

prot180

Appreciate the double feature!

startrekiborg

I feel your pain on the credits in the beginning giving too much away. But, I sincerely believe that's a SAG mandate that is difficult to bypass, and not worth the effort under most conditions. A good example of this is Star Wars. They let George Lucas get away with it on "A New Hope", but when they put their foot down on "The Empire Strikes Back", he left the guild, which is also why he couldn't use Steven Spielberg as director.

Scarpad’s Domain

I remember on youtube there's some deleted scnes from this episode including one with data and sela if im remembering correctly

James H

“Materiel” is a thing. https://www.grammarly.com/commonly-confused-words/material-vs-materiel

Scarpad’s Domain

You guys gotta understand how show biz work credits in shows are dictated by the actors union and the actors agents

Ron Hubbard Jr

Spock was 137 years old in 2367 when this episode occurs.

Ron Hubbard Jr

This two-parter was the moment I think that TNG became real Star Trek for a lot of the older fans. I was in a Star Trek club at the time and there were several older members who were diehard TOS Trekkies that saw TNG as an imitation of Trek and not “real”. We had a watch party for both of the episodes. I remember a couple of them being moved to tears with the Sarek scenes and the Spock/Picard scene at the end.

Ron Hubbard Jr

Having Spock was great. It’s still a great episode, but the invasion bit was lame.

Column Meanie

Wait, I’m confused. How were you guys spoiled by the Mark Lenard credit? In his log Picard literally says they are going to Vulcan to ask Sarek why Spock would be on Romulus.

Russell Elledge

Yeah not only was this on the eve of Star Trek VI, it was the 25th anniversary of Star Trek. The marketing was high and they had a 25th anniversary special that also coincided with it. I was almost 12 years old and had it taped on VHS, watched it ALL THE TIME. Really looking forward to your ST6 reaction. It’s my favorite!

Derek Orr

Well sure but part 2 was where we had Spock actually appearing..it will always be superior for that reason.

Jeffrey P

The episode was a way to build excitement for Star Trek VI after the disappointing reception of Final Frontier. So much so that Leonard Nimoy'sappearance was paid from the advertising budget of the film. (Hollywood accounting at its best.)

Jeffrey P

The point of the episode was to hype up Star Trek VI, though, so they wanted everyone to know it was a Spock episode. TV writer Mark Evanier has a story on his blog where a famous actor wanted to do a surprise cameo on a show and a studio executive came out and said that there was no way that someone at the studio or in the marketing department wasn't going to leak it to draw in viewers.

Greg Quinn

I've thought about that but it would have been hard to construct it in such a way that they are having dialogue about going after a person without ever saying who it is. Also you would need to lose the interaction (at least on screen interaction) between Picard and Saraek.

Narnman

thats why its such a bad idea and look what happened

LonghillAndy

Rather unfortunate time stamp check just before 1:30 on part 2 Picard: I have come Cuts back to the clock 🤣

Paul Rymer

Really enjoyable watch-along with you. At the time I found this to be pretty underwhelming, was far more excited for Star Trek VI. The best parts are the scenes with Spock, Data and Picard. Sela was a nice surprise.

Jeffrey

Exactly. Reunification was MEANT to be seen first

Paul Rymer

I just watched both and there’s very little difference, probably less than 5 minutes content. I enjoyed both immensely, great film to watch more than once.

Mike W

Especially if you watched it when it aired, everything is set up and promoted because they are wanting ratings to make money and these two will spend 20% of the reaction lamenting they were robbed of some dumb wrestling “pop” for a reveal.

Paul Rymer

They showed the trailer for 6 during this broadcast; that movie was hyped way more than V had been. Spectacular trailer.

Mike Rogers

She didn't really. She believed the computer was secure but they broke that security.

Aaron Wells

It would be more like if the US invaded Scotland.

Nicholas Jennings

I only wish that they didn't reveal that they were looking for Spock so early. That reveal should have been left for the end of the first part. It would have been more impactful. Of course, you wouldn't have been able to have Mark Lenard play Sarek one last time here if they held off the reveal. I'm not sure it's worth sacrificing that. All we can ask ourselves in this situation is, what would Dr. Stubbs do? #wwdsd

Rich Loga

A few things about these episodes. Having ST: TNG and the ST:TOS film series collaborate was a mandate by the then chairman of Paramount to mark the 1991 25th anniversary of Star Trek. TNG boss Rick Berman met with the producer and director of Star Trek VI and as a result some references to TNG were added into the film script and Nimoy would appear as Spock on TNG. The reason this was a two part episode was to spread Nimoy’s high appearance fee across the budget of two episodes. Part 2 was filmed before part 1. Mark Leonard was not aware Sarek died until he saw the episode when it aired and thought that the off screen death was disrespectful of the character. The actor that portrayed Pardek was a returning performer from the 1st TOS pilot, actor Malachi Throne had overdubbed the dialogue of the main keeper in “The Cage”. He also portrayed Commodore Mendez in “The Menagerie”. Spock’s appearance on TNG was hyped like crazy in magazines, newspapers and Television before it aired, no one watching in 1991 was surprised by his appearance.

Max Shenk

There's a saying "the whole is better than the sum of its parts." In this case, I think it's the opposite. The good parts are great, but somehow for me they just don't add up to a great episode. The scene with Picard and Sarek, the stuff with the Federation depot master, the Klingons baiting Picard and Data aboard the ship, ALL of the scenes of Spock-- on their own, all of these bits are great. WHY, then, don't I feel like it all adds up to a great episode? I don't know, but it doesn't. Disappointing. B minus. Picard's "then THEY will have our gratitude" speech is one of my favorite Picard moments.

Narnman

Nice plan Sela leaving them in an office with full computer access which was enough to derail the entire invasion plan instead of escorting them to the cells

Narnman

it reminds me when the US invaded Grenada which is part of the British Commonwealth. I think Reagan phoned up Thatcher to personally apologize for not informing her of the plan

Dark Kronis

yeah they would not be able to supply the troops as the federation would blockade Vulcan, it be a instant declaration of war, the Klingon would gladly join in, so you have two major powers vs Empire( even if one was weakened by the previous civil war), and the gains of one planet they cant hold, it be costly and disastrous for romulas

Deep Red

I really like when shows or movies have fun side characters. And there were a lot here. I genuinely enjoy the junk depot guy. Same with the 4 armed pianist. Star Trek rarely shows the mundane and seedy side of galactic society.

Ground Under Repair

I've seen this episode 10 times or more and I'm just realizing the Klingon commander is Stephen Root!? (Milton in Office Space, voice of Bill on King of the Hill)

Crankygrandma

They definitely did this to promote 6. But this is amazing in its own right. And Sarek….battling with his son for years, and yet even in his Vulcan Alzheimer’s, he defends and trusts him. What a beautiful end to their story.

Owen Madden

Have been anxiously awaiting your reaction to this! I loved that you did both parts as one video! One of the things I love about STAR TREK is the way the past is always acknowledged, & characters change & grow even offscreen. It all started here.

James Hoffmann

Sela's trojan horse plan was silly IMO. There is no way that 2000 Romulan soldiers could conquer Vulcan. The episode tries to address this concern by saying that once the soldiers became entrenched that the Federation would accept it as a fait accompli but I don't buy that. There is no way that the Federation would allow Romulans to conquer Vulcan like that. And Sela is not a very convincing villain imo. Denise Crosby is just not menacing enough. But other than that, this 2 parter is an absolute banger. S Tier for me all the way. It is a great TOS-TNG crossover. We get amazing scenes between Picard and Sarek. Masterful acting by Mark Lenard. We also get amazing scenes between Picard and Spock and between Spock and Data.

penoyer79

no. this was meant to be seen before the movie as foreshadowing just as we saw it back in the day

penoyer79

this was def the teaser for star trek 6. and spock's hinting of the events was even more hype due to a clip in the trailer which i will not divulge. people were hyped for 6.

Darren Seal

There is a huge amount to like in this two parter but its main problem for me is a lack of scale, the plot is epic but the execution is not. Its just three small ships with a few thousand troops to defeat one of the main worlds of the federation - its a bit underwhelming. That said the scenes with Spock, the Sarek and Picard scene and the scenes on the bird of prey are all wonderful. It’s a solid B for me, close to an A at times

Scarpad’s Domain

For me part ones were aways better than the part two's. This 2 parter I always felt the individual scenes, Picard and sarek, data and Spock were better than the plot, Sela I always felt was a waste of a character and ultimately two dimensional, still it made me excited for star trek 6 and more cowboy diplomacy

Aaron Wells

The second part of this episode has a ridiculous premise. Completely not thought out at all. Okay, Romulus thinks it can invade and conquer Vulcan. With 2,000 men and three transport ships. Okay. But even leaving that aside, Vulcan is a core Federation world. Vulcan is a charter member of the federation, a Founding planet. What writer had it in his moronic head that the romulans could simply pick out a single core Federation planet and just conquer it? It would be like the Soviet Union deciding that it was going to conquer Ohio... And somehow believing that the United States is going to just what? Sit there and do nothing? Decide that that's an issue between Ohio and the Soviets? There is no conquest of Ohio or Vulcan without a condition of full-scale war. The whole premise is simply idiotic. And yeah. You're not going to defeat an entire planet with 2000 men. The Vulcans might be pacifists but they do defend themselves and they do have some pretty wicked tech. Federation tech if nothing else.

Retro Tom

Thanks for the update

Collin Freeman

I was 1 of those people who liked Part 1 more than Part 2. In general, when these episodes first came out, I felt a little letdown and disappointed for some reason after Part 2 (expectations not met?). But on the rewatch after a few decades away from it, I do like and appreciate it more than I once did. One example: I like Sela as an antagonist, but I feel her character and lines were not up to what they should have been; her dialog and scenes made her come off too much like a campy James Bond villain to me.

Josh (Target Audience)

Theatrical

Retro Tom

Which version of Star trek 6 will you be watching. The Theatrical version or the Director's Cut?

Collin Freeman

I kind of felt the same way. I think I regard it more highly now that time has passed, but back then, I felt a little letdown for some reason. Not sure what I was expecting or hoping for.

Collin Freeman

That sounds amazing. I wish I had been there.

Collin Freeman

Yes, I remember that. We got blue-balled for part 1.

Collin Freeman

Same.

Aaron Wells

Right. You can totally defeat the planetary defenses of Vulcan and then capture the planet with 2000 troops. It makes perfect sense. Not completely insane to expect to be able to capture an entire planet with fewer men than would be required to take a single town. :)

Ron Hubbard Jr

I actually like Part One more than Part Two. The whole Romulan invasion subplot with Sela was lame.

Ron Hubbard Jr

It’s Mark Lenard (not Leonard).

Ron Hubbard Jr

I thought the Sela appearance was wasted. Sarek (Mark Lenard) had Bendii Syndrome.

Paul Hess

Great reaction and review. I think Mark Leonard's final portrayal was stellar ... opening with the progression of his Bendii syndrome and then the character's monumental effort to help Picard for the sake of their friendship and for his son, despite the constant onslaught of emotions dragging him down. I know you didn't focus much on that but maybe a rewatch of the Serak / Picard scene will be worthwhile. I really dislike Sela's portrayal, yet again. A great Romulan leader, with all the resources of an empire and special ops organizations, but "whoops, foiled again by that rascally Data". [EDIT: corrected Sarek’s Bendii syndrome, thanks @RonHubbardJr]

Ally Roth

"Unification" really grew on me over the years. TNG was my first Trek so Spock showing up didn't matter to me when I saw this as a kid. Then in my 20s it was something I could enjoy for the nostalgia. But I made it to middle age, and at this point I really identify with where Spock is in his life. So it all hits now.

River Acheron

GREAT reaction, guys! I was waiting for this one! I do have to say, I feel Josh has been harsher lately, and much harder to please. lol That's not a bad thing! If TNG has been so good, it keeps challenging him to set the bar higher, I am all for it. I am SO psyched for DS9!

Brian Dunleavy

While I agree, the fact that Unification was screened before TUC was released means that technically it was spoiled regardless…!

MrTickleTrunk

Knew that very last moment before the credits was going to git em :) Nimoy was always an amazing actor. GOT EM BOTH! lol

Dark Kronis

The ship comes and says "Woah check it out, there's an abandoned Galaxy Class starship in perfect condition! Well make a fortune!!"

Josh (Target Audience)

He is officially the Klingon WOAT

captveg

Stephen Root may just have to burn down the building after the reaction to his Klingon character, lol. I agree his makeup and dialogue are not quite to the quality of the Klingons in the Redemption episodes.

Jeff

When Part 1 was first shown on tv, the network built it up as "the return of Spock!!!!" It was such a letdown when he showed up only in the last few seconds, and then we had to wait a whole week for the conclusion.

Scarpad’s Domain

I saw this pisode premiered the weekend it was released at a local convention, in attendance Mark Lenard and he actually sat in the audience and watched the episode and it was mind blowing it started with a Standing ovation when the tribute to roddenberry cm on screen, when Sarek came on, everyone hooted and clapped, and when hee died offscreen , cried, and at thee end of part two anothr standing ovation and Mark Lenard spoke. I'll never forget it as long as I live.

Steven Johnson

It's interesting. I never had a particularly high regard for this two parter. There's good stuff in there. I love seeing Spock. The scene with Sarek in part one (How did you guys forget that beautiful moment when talking about part 1?! "Nothing good" get outta hereee!)... But, I am truly excited for Star Trek Vi. I'm already holding back tears, because thats my crew.

EnigmaticPenguin

What a perfect generational-crossing episode for Gene to have died on.

Gold Wing

Back then, this episode was for me the introduction of the secret services in Star Trek. Lot more to come from here now on

PIG

Seriously. Thank you TA! My Saturday is already better.

General Trelane

Can’t wait to see the guys reaction to this one

Anthony Goodwin

During this time, Spock is currently 175 years old.

Badger

What a great surprise for Saturday morning! Thanks guys!

Steve Boshear

Man, I did not realize this one was next. Now I have to put off my errands for a couple hours.

Fishing Trip

Spoiler for me: This guy dies in episode 6. Spoiler for them: staring gates McFadden

Brian Gentry

I love Josh and Alex's reactions but way too much talking over important dialogue in this one.

Steve Boshear

Especially when they're literally discussing that character in dialogue at the same time. Nothing in history has ever been less of a spoiler.

Fishing Trip

How is seeing a person's name in the credits a spoiler? You are watching the episode lol.

Fishing Trip

Banger

Joshua Hartman

I will say this may have been better had you seen Star Trek 6 first, as some of the events of that movie are referenced in the episode, but in any case I'm very excited to watch this later!

Evan Guthrie

So would we call this reaction an early Christmas present or a late Christmas present? Because it is early after all...

Paul Hess

I agree with you on Sela but Mark Leonard's performance, and the joy of seeing Leonard Nimoy, still make this a high A+ episode for me. Mark "Leonard" and "Leonard" Nimoy ... those names almost sound related!