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Something Wicked This Way Comes
🕑 Added 2025-10-02 01:03:40 +0000 UTCWe've got a couple videos in the pipeline before this one, but we're currently working on a review of a suite of TM Saiga-12 parts courtesy of ITP. The headliner is the Groza-12 kit, a fascinating wholly fictional bullpup rendition of the Saiga.
From what we've gathered this seems like something of a passion project on the part of ITP. Effort has clearly been put into the design in order to make it work, but it also has a fair amount of embellishment to sell the notion that this is a gun that could exist in the real world. We'll have a lot to talk about as far as how it works- it's not the easiest thing to put into text- but for today I wanted to mention a few less obvious details of ITP's work.
First, we've confirmed with them that all the aluminum parts of the kit (which is most of it) are CNC machined from 6061-T6 billet. Oftentimes even airsoft kits advertised as 'CNC' are actually cast and then just finished on a CNC mill. Being manufactured from billet means starting with a chunk of aluminum that looks like this:
And through the magic of CNC machining, removing material until you're left with just the finished part. It's an expensive process, but the end result is real-steel quality.
I highlight this because most airsoft manufacturers don't disclose their materials or methods, and that makes it a lot harder to gauge value at a glance. The Groza kit is expensive compared to SRU (3D printed) kits or the old Kushnapup kit (injection-molded nylon), but in light of the materials and processes used this makes a certain amount of sense. As I've been personally testing out the kit for review, it's felt less like an add-on conversion and more like a set of replacement aluminum externals for the otherwise pot metal TM Saiga. That has altered my opinion of its value- we'll see if the other guys agree.
But I actually don't think the bullpup kit is the star of the show here. ITP has also sent us a couple of small parts, including a replacement rocket valve, a nozzle return spring, a pair of tri-nozzle return springs, a set of barrels. They're all close to or identical to the OEM parts in design.
What's important is that the biggest problem with the Saiga to date has been that it is constantly riding the bleeding edge of its design and materials, and over time things start to fail. When they do, getting replacements from Tokyo Marui is like getting blood from a stone. The loss of even a small part can turn the gun into a wall-hanger, or even without major failures, gradual degradation can cause the gun to malfunction. If you've seen our Saiga update video, you've seen some of the ersatz fixes we had to make to keep the guns running.
So ITP being willing to recreate the original designs (or at least provide functionally equivalent substitutes) means that spare parts are finally available, and while much less glamorous than a fancy bullpup kit we consider this much more exciting. Finally we have not only the reassurance that we can fix things if propane at 90F proves too much, but also the freedom to start tinkering and pushing the system's limits without risking bricking the entire thing.
This highlights that even for manufacturers with generally good track records, the availability or lack of availability of OEM parts can have a major impact on long-term reliability. In the case of Marui, some of their guns are extensively supported by aftermarket, while others have no parts availability whatsoever. As we've seen with the Saiga, that matters.
In any case, there are a few other interesting things ITP sent along with the kit that we'll be covering in the review. We intend to have that done by the end of the month, but there are other happenings that may influence timing, so no guarantees.
-Catgut
Comments
BananaTrain
> Oftentimes even airsoft kits advertised as 'CNC' are actually cast and then just finished on a CNC mill. I will say that, while this does happen, most of the time I'm aware of stuff that says CNC is actually CNC'd from billet (or where applicable extrusions, though those can also be 6061 or 7075 etc. with minimal difference though sometimes the heat treatment makes them very slightly softer than pure billet), in particular on aftermarket kits, which aren't made to the numbers where developing casting molds makes sense. I'd say it's if anything more uncommon for a *kit* to say something is CNC and have it actually cast. Sometimes mass prod guns which use "CNC" for marketing/buzz are just CNC finished, but other than that more than you might think is actually billet. Which doesn't mean they made them well or with well heat treated alu, potentially, but the cost difference of good vs really cheap alu billets is actually not that big.
Cor Guijt
Now that I finally have a vfc ak you mention the saiga again and my heart aches for one. Just kidding. Looking forward what kind of kit they produce.
