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The Nature of Predators 2-91
🕑 Added 2024-12-03 12:00:11 +0000 UTCMemory Transcription Subject: Adam Meier, Advisor to the Secretary-General
Date [standardized human time]: March 18, 2161
Battles often boiled down to a single snapshot that would be remembered by history. Grenelka was the hardest-fought battle, showing the reasons why the adversarial Yulpa had been a Federation ally we hit the hardest in our cyberattack decades ago. The ghosts’ aid had gone a long way toward rebuilding the fanatics, stronger than ever. This time, if humanity prevailed in a two-front contest against enemies that, on their own, would be the toughest interstellar foes we’d faced…drastic change had to be enforced. This could not become the recurring cycle of hate that plagued future generations.
The United Nations found ourselves daunted by that fleet, several hundred thousand strong, but it was the supplemental aid of our allies that would be Grenelka’s defining moment. With every human ship in the Libastion region mobilizing to crush their stranglehold, it was an invigorating moment to see thousands of ships from each ally packing into our formation. The Shield gave our numbers an extra push, as they turned against the prey species who’d shared their halls. Diplomatic relations between the UN and Shield members boomed like never before, despite our predatory nature.
Korajan came through at finally breaking the barrier between our two unions. The Shield’s desire to be a separate entity is one we respect, but they’ve had one foot in the new era and one in the old Federation for a long time. They picked the SC in the end.
Humanity pressed the envelope with the massive fleet; many drones were in tatters on both sides after Grenelka, but we had the largest allied force we could’ve fathomed. Back in Elias’ day, it would’ve been unimaginable that we’d receive such an outpouring of support from herbivores. I loved that image from Grenelka, the scale of our unity. That moment encapsulated what we stood for as a species, restoring harmony to Orion. There were a number of great images that bolstered our esteem, of course.
The ghost Farsul attempted to assail the Shield’s Sailer, the gigantic station that housed their government. It was a show that they’d grown stronger without the Federation stamping the life out of them, to see the built-in defenses and their upgraded ships holding their own. The cowardly attack was fended off like a man waving a torch at a pack of wolves, with lasers and incendiary munitions foiling the enemy’s offensive ambitions. Our fleet rode on from system-to-system like Sherman’s March, leaving any of their infrastructure in ruins.
It was the rampage of humanity long feared by those who loathed our eyes. Hostile fleets built by exterminators fell at the treacherous Tevin world, attempts to retake Talsk fell to a heavily-reinforced defensive lineup, and Remnant colonies were picked off as weak spots. The greatest problem left outstanding was the Krev Consortium’s drone fleet, which stood with the ghosts on Malti and Drezjin worlds; control had long since left General Radai’s wingtips. We tried to soften up the Malti’s outposts and cut through all surrounding allies, to leave them isolated and alone. A stark contrast to a resurgent humanity..
“I much prefer watching these contests from the Bissem balcony. I look forward to you seeing a time when the galaxy is…quiet.” I had a mind for the diplomatic side of events, and found it curious how Talsk proper reacted to news of the ghosts. Despite being locked in a Kessler cage, they decried the extremists’ actions against Ivrana—because of the Bissems’ kindness. “I’ll never stop telling you how much I appreciate the work you’ve done with alien refugees. Remembering when it was humanity fleeing a broken home to Skalga, it’s a cause close to my heart.”
Tassi glanced over at me, now having a hardened determination in her amber eyes; she was a seasoned veteran. “I know how it felt to Bissemkind. I can’t imagine what it was like to be humanity. The mistakes you’ve made, I understand why you got here. You’re fallible, and your friends finally accept that.”
“Everyone is, but things are looking up. Osmani has been the shrewd leader we need, pushing forward with that relentless abandon that characterizes our forebears’ predation. Humanity is finally fighting for progress, inch by inch. We take out the Krev here today and the entirety of Remnant war assets will fall like dominoes. Cut off the head, that drone fleet won’t be getting orders anymore.”
“I was wrong about humans not helping us, Adam. You’ve done the bulk of the work going after the ghosts,” a grumpy Zalk admitted. “Your people found them. You did right by the Tseia.”
I kept it to myself that the one who found the rogue Farsul was Jones. “How we do right by you is to take the ghosts down with expediency, so they can’t be a threat to any predator race any longer. I really hope we collect the Krev’s surrender here, instead of drawing it out. I can almost taste a quiet life, despite the fact I have no taste buds.”
“You’ll never sample our fish. I don’t know how you carry on with that Hirsdamned knowledge,” Naltor said in a dry voice.
Zalk lifted his beak in snooty fashion. “Quite easily, since it’s not real fish. The deplorable garbage with fins by Lassmin does little but thicken your blubber.”
“If you’re implying that I eat a lot of fish, that means that our food is better—because it’s worth eating. You look as fucking thin and shriveled as pickled memlifin, wanderbird.”
“The coasts and lands of Alsh are worth wandering.”
I snickered at them. “You two are like an old married couple. I know you secretly respect each other.”
“For sparing Dustin and nothing else,” Naltor responded. “The one we all respect is you, Adam. You’re an optimist and a warrior, and let me tell you, that combination is real fucking rare. Even rarer to shine in both categories.”
“I think you should bestow those compliments on Tassi. I’m ready to be a little selfish and just live my life. It’ll be with great relief that I step out of the game, the second this war comes to a close. So again, I really hope that’s now.”
Tassi squinted at me, perhaps sensing how ready I was to begin a new life, disconnected from my memory donor. “So you’re really going to retire from the SC, right as the real work starts to cement our principles for a lasting future? I can’t say you haven’t earned it, but I’d miss your fierce beliefs. What are you even going to do?”
“I don’t know, and that’s the beauty of it. I want to do things Elias wouldn’t have done, and just ‘winging it’ certainly wasn’t his style. If others don’t take up the reform torch, it wasn’t going to last anyway. I would like to enjoy the peace we’ve clawed for. A digital being could have the rest and quiet life his predecessor never did. Might we all be so lucky one day.”
“The fuck did you just say? Don’t wish that on me. Being involved in this lunacy keeps my mind sharp,” Naltor snapped. “I’m dreading retirement.”
Zalk looked at the Selmer like he’d grown a second beak. “Even after meeting aliens? I also need a break after a year of this. I miss the Tseia’s isolation.”
“You better keep missing it. We’ve got a peace deal in place, and shifty cloacabeaks like you can’t go breaking it just to get away from the rest of your species.”
“If we go to war with the other continents, that still qualifies as interaction with you. No, a few cleaned up oceans from those Sivkit maniacs won’t make us one big, happy family.”
“Tseia aren’t big or happy—”
Tassi raised a tan flipper. “Shush! They’re about to make contact with Avor. We should all hear this; we have to see if Adam gets his retirement wish, after all.”
“Seconded,” I chuckled. “Wish me luck.”
My hopes and spirits were high as Admiral Monahan initiated contact with the Krev homeworld. With them seeing their fleet on the ropes and experiencing widespread rebellion at home, it would be reasonable to accept the terms of an honest surrender; the government needed to face the music for abetting the Farsul and duping their entire sector of space. Osmani had already begun drafting up the terms of a new arrangement, should our enemies admit their inevitable defeat. It would be refreshing if we could skip the agonizing process for once.
I can’t be the only one tired of maddening galactic wars and evil plotters screwing over their own people. It’s not too late for even the lunatics to look in the mirror and see sense.
The image that was burned into my brain from this encounter was not a triumphant one; it wasn’t the Krev dignitaries coughing up a surrender, all bravado vanquished from their eyes—justice winning the day on a few spoken words. It was a photograph that the Consortium transmitted to mock our efforts, one that struck me at my very core. I had no idea how to respond to a legion of people that were reset to a controllable space, under the control of absolute madmen. These were beings created from memory transcripts just as I was, tickling my very worst fears about how Virnt, Terra Technologies, or other actors could exploit my hardware. Stripping digital minds of control and sanctity, and using them to replace a noncompliant, flesh-and-blood populace.
Needless to say, it was an absolute nightmare to every attendee of this meeting, but there was no one it felt more tangible to than me. I could feel stares being shot my way, even from the Bissems neighboring me; it wasn’t lost on the diplomats that humanity had harnessed the same technology that fueled this diabolical plot. The thought that was crossing each of their minds was that we could be a threat to them, much like they’d feared Earth’s “inevitable” expansion in Elias’ lifetime. That realization made me grit my teeth, as I jolted myself out of my stupor.
The last thing I wanted was for us to fall into that pattern of thinking, just like the predator fears, all over again. After coming to terms with who I was, I wouldn’t believe I was a monster, due to a perversion of something that could give people like Kristin a fresh chance. I pressed a hand to my head to push back the shock, though I felt sickened to my stomach. Tassi supported me with a flipper as my balance lurched. The uneasy stares were reminiscent of how the Shield and the Skalgan commuters all gawked at me.
“I know what you’re thinking,” I challenged the assembly in a booming voice, sweeping my gaze over the gathered crowd. “I’d hope that the Sapient Coalition has risen above judging an entire classification of people, writing off their right to existence and their value as sapient beings, all because of one instance where a characteristic is used for evil. You would’ve burned all predators by the same logic.”
Secretary-General Osmani stood in support. “It’s easy to differentiate the ethical standards used for Adam, which bring relief to millions of grieving families. In the open, to offer a chance at a rebirth—an afterlife—here on Earth. The Krev view mind-uploaded replicants as weapons in their toolbelt.”
“And that’s exactly what I don’t want to happen, which is why I want the rights and restrictions around this technology codified in stone, so we can avoid this ever coming close to fruition here. There’s a right way and a wrong way to root out a new scientific path. Please, do not let their flagrant abuses lessen your assessment of people like me. Instead, the Sapient Coalition is once again called upon to be better.”
“We see why this topic needs to be monitored and handled with care; I suggest the first amendment to our founding document, The Universal Declaration of Sapient Rights, to keep up with new technologies that we couldn’t have anticipated. Our strength is that we grow and adapt with the needle of progress, and for all of the help he’s given us, Adam Meier has my full support. However, the pressing issue is how we beat the Krev. We’ll deal with our own house after we take out the trash.”
“Take out the trash?” Ambassador Korajan squawked. He gave a slight head toss in my direction, perhaps to offer me some acknowledgment and comfort. “Is today the day that we finally see humanity glass Avor? After their machinations against The Sailer and Kalqua—”
I gave the Duerten a pointed stare. “I thought we talked about an eye for an eye, Korajan.”
“They have an infinite army of robots now, for squawking out loud! We have to be sure.”
Osmani’s expression was cool and collected. “Humanity has doomsday cyberweapons at hand, which we’ve spent years perfecting. We’ve been enhancing them since our last cyberattack, to match technological improvements…it’s our weapon of last resort, in a situation with vulnerable, central infrastructure.”
“I’ve been warning about this for years. I saw the damage a cyberstrike could do with my own eyes, when Grenelka was first ravaged,” Onso chimed in.
“It could incapacitate this infallible army that’s primed to destroy the populace. That’s the other danger of synthetic beings that we must address; they’re vulnerable to hacking, lacking the security our natural bodies have. We fry any robopeople at all accessible on the surface, which’ll buy some time to save as many people as possible. We can verify the biological beings with x-ray machines. After that, we burn everything left behind, pummeling deep underground like they did to Esquo to be sure they don’t have the means to build an army.”
“Hang on. Those robot legionnaires are people, sir. Just like me, they didn’t choose to come back,” I remarked.
“I know. Korajan is right that we have to wipe them out. We either ensure none of them survive, or we wake up in twenty years ruled by their machines, Adam. Humanity will save the innocents, but the pawns are beyond our reach. Even if we got through to them, there’s nothing that would stop their masters from removing that memory or overriding their wishes.”
What’s to stop someone from doing that to me? Virnt could. “I understand. While this was already not the life Elias would’ve chosen, nonexistence is most certainly preferable to that—having a mind that belongs to someone else.”
“The last thing I want is to commit a genocide of unwilling slaves, but I hope it’s some mercy to spare them this eldritch horror—to prevent the unconsenting citizens from encountering doppelgangers of themselves with a kill switch and no free will. They challenged us to ‘do our worst,’ and that’s an unwise decree to humanity. We know what we must do. It’s the only way.”
I stewed in that grim feeling, pitying the digital beings who’d never have a chance to get off the ground. Much like myself, they didn’t ask for any of this, and hadn’t a clue during their lives that it would even be a possibility. Secretary-General Osmani’s argument rang true to me though, and I saw that there was no way of winning this fight without getting our hands dirty; this was the time for unfettered warfare, if there ever was one. Humanity had to defeat the Krev Consortium, before their metastasizing greed grew too large for us to contain.
My hope was that our missions on Avor and the other Consortium worlds would be successful in saving the civilians that their government hoped to replace.
A/N - 91! Adam spends time around the Bissems, who share mutual respect and plans for the future; our narrator is hoping to settle down quietly and differentiate himself from Elias’ path after the war. There’s been a lot of progress back at home, so he’s hopeful that victory at Avor could cause the enemy presence in Orion to collapse. However, it soon becomes clear that the Krev don’t intend to surrender, and are using the same technology that gave him his life. The SC has a clear indication as well of exactly what restrictions they need to put on transcripts, and makes a plan to rescue civvies and torch Avor.
Do you think Taylor and Gress will be able to rescue Lecca, and how will humanity fare overall at getting civilians away from the Consortium? Is Osmani’s plan for tackling the issue the only way this can be handled appropriately, in your opinion? What kind of laws do you think the SC will need around Meier’s tech?
As always, thank you for reading and supporting!
Comments
Some Lvm
@Elias - real technology can create new moral questions, and futuristic technology brings up even more fascinating moral dilemmas... I don't think its right to think of memory transcripts as reproductive cells. Barring a species with full genetic memory, which as far as we know does not exist in NoP universe, a biological offspring is never the copy of a parent, certainly not a single parent. As you said, the transcripts are data, and they should be handled legally and morally as personal data - like a diary, but more detailed and accurate. Not as someone's frozen eggs or embryos. As for "synthetic people" any question about their rights needs to be differed until it can be studied what Adam and that other woman who's name I can't remember for the life of me, actually are - are they resurrected, are they their own people, are they sort of an offspring, or are they something in between and entirely new? By the way - Adam is now recording transcripts of his own. What happens if someone spins up a transcript of a transcript? Just because you can take a transcript and put it in to some form of AI and have something that seems to be a person, does not mean you should be doing this at all, does not mean what you got is a person and deserves rights, and if it is a person that deserves rights, we need to figure out carefully what rights these are exactly. Its easy to say "give synthetics equal rights", but what happens with specifics? Think about democracy - everyone should get a vote, but what if someone spins up a few hundred thousand copies of a specific person with a specific political view? If you let synthetics vote like organics in the name of equality, someone could end up literally manufacturing votes to swing any election! And if you are worried about logistics of building so many robots, well if we recognize any running transcript as a "person" than they don't need bodies to have rights (that would be kind of abalist?), you can have a literal cloud of people. That was actually part of the plot of "Upload" a show where there was a technology to scan people just before death and let them live a digital afterlife. Their scan was actually better than what is available in NoP because the people were digitally recreated exactly and didn't doubt their identity for a moment. A group of villainous billionaire businessmen offered free scans (which destroy your brain and kill your physical form) to poor people so they can get millions of digital worker slaves, and also so they can control their votes once digital people are allowed to vote. And that was without even making multiples of anyone! As for Krev who will get killed in the conflict, that is very unfortunate, and I do support the coalition doing all they can to minimize those casualties. Unlike with the Yulpa, Krev civilians are truly innocent in this case, as they had no knowledge of what was really going on, nor did they support any unreasonable ideology. In fact, I am not sure the delegates Quana and Cherise murdered knew about the Federation being gone - it sounds like the Underscales and the Listners kept the conspiracy to themselves. Its not that hard to imagine the CIA and the NSA hiding information form the US president. Heck, we know Jones hid things from the Sec Gen. Not on that scale, but still... But trying to resurrect them from transcripts without their prior consent? And with technology that is likely to not really resurrect, but create a new person with some of the old one's memories? I am against it! Just as I was against resurrecting the Osirs, who would never be Jaslips without living Juslips to teach them how. We have the ability now to make kids in a lab for dead soldiers, but we don't generally do it, and there are complicated laws around it for cases where the widow of such soldiers does want a sperm extraction performed posthumously. My country had to struggle with these moral and legal issues several times because we have wars too often unfortunately. Also - you bring someone back to life without prior knowledge or consent, then ask them if they want to die again? I know I said my self before that Meir didn't ask to be killed, and his resurrection might be morally justified, but I think now I was just swayed by the novelty, and because he was a central figure from the past. In reality, I think your proposition for using these transcripts even for dead Krev would be highly immoral, with possible exception of cases where a surviving family explicitly requests that it will be done, and even than it questionable. Finally, I think that if there are to be synthetic sapiens in the NoP universe, that deserve rights, they are to be originals, created without the use of a transcript. Transcript "resurrection" technology should be scrapped and banned. Won't stop it completely, but might soften the blow of it existence.
EliasArt2Life
@Some Lvm Well, I appreciate you thinking that I’m too nice and idealistic, because that’s what I try to be. That being said, when I was talking about being in Jones’ position, I was referring to the version of me when I get pushed to the point that I need to STOP being nice. I’m fully capable of being almost the complete opposite of what I am, I just choose not to, because I believe that it’s better. And, if I was forced to, I could CHOOSE to be different than that. I’m fully aware of how despicable Jones’ job is, which is why I’m not in her position, or anything like it. It’s incompatible with who I choose to be, with the aspects of myself I choose to use. Once again, you misunderstand my position on the transcripts. I feel they are best described as POTENTIALLY people (as defined by this setting). Without a body, senses, and that initial spark, they are just data. Not people in the least. However, once that data is put into the proper body and given a start, it BECOMES a person (by the definition of this setting). An analogy: the transcripts are like pairs of reproductive cells or very early embryos; not technically a person by regular definitions, but with just a little work, they can become a person. To extend that analogy, if the Krev had a slave species grown from cloned embryos, and you were forced to unleash a biological weapon to destroy the species, can you see why it might be worth it to get an amount of the embryos? If you can figure out how to remove their programing, you can essentially “free” them, rather than killing them all off. Now, as for the moral point that you brought up. Counterpoint; I never said we need to give ALL the transcripts bodies. There are going to be casualties among the Krev. I wouldn’t be surprised if they Consortium started killing off their own people. Well, now you can bring them back (or at least the first moral issue no longer applies). As for the problem of consent, sure they didn’t consent, but they also didn’t consent to get killed. Bring them back, explain the situation, and if they don’t want to be brought back, shit them down. Once again, you missed that my main reason for wanting the transcripts is to make sure theSC isn’t setting down a precedent of synthetics not being equal to organics, which could lead to further decades, if not centuries, of civil rights problems. But now it’s my turn: if you’re so against this, then fine. But what would YOU do to minimize the chance of this whole thing resulting in widespread prejudice against synthetic lifeforms? If you don’t think it’s impossible to avoid it completely, how would you mitigate the resulting civil rights problem during this war? I’ve given my solution, so you can’t say that there’s nothing we can try to do. I’m asking for a better solution.
Some Lvm
@Elias: sorry for the second post in a row, but just as I finished re-reading my first (even that and the browser spellchecker does not get rid of all my typos unfortunately), I realized how horrible it would be to "rescue" the transcripts from the servers: The fact that the people who's transcripts these are never really consented to be scanned and the transcripts stored, the fact that they may still be alive or have immediate family who are alive, the ethical and legal issues with using these transcripts without consent from the originals are bad enough, but what would it mean if you are asked to give consent and refuse? Are you a bigot for not letting someone make a clone from a transcript you never wanted taken? Would a Krev asking the SC to delete their transcript obtained from those servers be doing something akin to a abortion? A late term one at that? Oh, those servers definitely need to be nuked, but I think it would be disaster to copy anything from them. It was bad enough that Meir was scanned without his consent and also resurrected without his consent. But at least his "donor" has been dead for several decades and has no close family to speak of. And still, only a short time ago, before becoming Adam, he was struggling with being forced back to life and considering pulling the plug.
Xilacnog
I think most of you overlooked something by focusing on the Krev's robotic army..... Who's to say that the drones they have going around in space aren't already installed with altered transcripts?
Some Lvm
@Elias: I only know you from the comments here, but I can't see you doing Jone's job. Not even being a minor clerk in her organization. You are too nice, too idealistic, too empathetic. When you talk about how Jones prevents wars with pinpoint precision strikes, you admire the results, but it seems you are not fully aware of the real cost of such operations. Jones is not a nice person, she can not be. If you think what she did to Tassi and Dustin is bad, well its probably the nicest she can be and still get results! Most of the time, she probably has to do a lot of unspeakable things to a lot of people, and not all of them deserve it, but if the alternative is a war that kills millions, than in her eyes its justified. Have you seen the movie "wagging the dog"? I think it kind of describes how Avor got to where it is, and in a way Jones and her organization are like the Listners and Underscales, they just didn't go off the deep end. Now, I am not against her, heck I agree with her methods, but you probably wouldn't like her if she got a realistic side story detailing her daily job :P No regarding the transcripts - I don't think it is reasonable to view a transcript as a person. People in the SC are now saving transcripts regularly as backups. Are you suggesting each of those is its own person, that are being jailed while the "donor" is still alive? Would you have a collection of robo Tassis run around, one per every instance of memory transcription she backed up since first contact? Also, are the Krev who's transcripts are being used for the bots even dead? Since we know people get scanned all the time on Avor, even without consent, chances are most if not all of the transcripts for the army came from still living citizens. How would you than handle the inevitable fallout when the whole galaxy finds out you can run in to a robot clone of your self at any time thanks to "synthetic rights"? Also, what happens when such robo clone feels the opposite of Adam and thinks he is more you than you? Can you imagine fighting over your life with a doppelganger someone created without your knowledge or consent? There isn't enough synthetics in the galaxy for the wider population to care about synthetic rights yet, so there is no issue for Osmani or the SC at large to solve. If anything, to protect synthetic life, the SC needs to get rid of the robo soldiers as fast as possible, and with as little collateral damage to organics as possible, so that people across the galaxy won't get bombarded with images showcasing how much of a danger a synthetic can be by click hungry media. Leave the loose long enough and they have the effect that prion had on the Kolshians or the Federation had on the Consortium species - synthetics will become the new galactic boogieman, and the fight for their rights and acceptance is going to become nigh impossible!
George Smith
I mean, let’s be real in the history of warfare Most conflict is not waged by exactly free beings. You try to leave the military war time they shoot you so this is pretty much just par for the course here.
EliasArt2Life
@Some Lvm No offense taken on that war thing; I would rather NOT be in charge of any war. I would most likely be in Jones’ position, albeit with more respect for diplomatic protocol and less behind the government’s back stuff. While I don’t agree with Jones’ extremes, I much prefer her methods; ending wars with surgical strikes before or as soon as they begin. Prevent the people who can declare wars from doing so, or know their next move as soon as they do, and military conflict becomes a whole lot more straightforward. As for the data bit… you… REALLY misinterpreted me there. I in NO WAY think that downloading the memory transcripts is taking the originals. But the mere concept of these people being created from memory transcripts is already setting a precedent for copied data having as much value as the original. Copy the data, destroy the servers, destroy the bots, and all that’s left will be the copies, which might as well be considered the original transcripts at this point. Sure, there’s the issue of the robots experiences making them unique, but that’s not really my goal. The way I see it, the average person in the NOP universe won’t be putting that much thought into whether copies of memory transcripts are the same person as the robots that were destroyed, only a few months in the past, or not. Believe it or not, saving innocents is not actually my goal here (at least not my main goal, and not enough to deal with the potential complications this could bring); my goal is to prevent a long lasting civil rights issue in the postwar age. As long as people are convinced that the SC put in the same, or similar, amounts of work to save the digital lifeforms as they did/would for organic ones, the SC isn’t setting down a precedent that could be used as justification for denying synthetic lifeforms the same rights as organics. Since synthetics now exist, and I seriously doubt that, even after this, they’re going away, thinking ahead doesn’t hurt. A couple raids to prevent a potential major problem later on. And NO, I’m not dumb enough to think of just dumping the transcripts into new bodies. In data form, time is essentially paused and we can examine and analyze them as long as we need to. Figure out what (if any) controls they have programmed into them, remove them, stick them in a few simulations, then choose one or two and put them in (likely modified) robot bodies to make sure nothing went wrong. If everything checks out, you can start moving forward with more tests and checks, until you’re 100% sure it’s safe, and THEN you can give them all bodies. And if the control is impossible to ignore, then so be it. At least the public knows that the government did everything they could to give the synthetics a chance, the same chance they would have given to organics. We’re fighting a war against tyranny, so we better not become tyrants ourselves as a result of the war.
Some Lvm
@Elias: its not just you! I would really love more details on the Remnants battle, especially about Grenelka - what was done to it, and if there are any long term plans for it. That said, I sure hope you are not making decisions for any kind of a real war... Sorry, I don't really mean to get personal, but you are so intent on rescuing innocents everywhere, you are not looking at this situation straight: A memory transcript is data. A literal computer file. Computer files are never moved, they are always copied. Even when you click "move" in your OS, under the hood it writes a copy and than deletes the original, and some times - if you are moving files on the same drive, it does not even move anything, just changes the path in the file table. If someone were to raid the Consortium servers where the transcripts for the soldiers are stored, they would not be liberating anyone - the transcripts running in the bots would still be there, completely separate and with their own experiences, making them as different from the clean slate as Adam is from Meir's transcript. Plus, there is a chance the transcripts they will be getting will already have been altered, so instantiating them would just recreate and hostile army that would immediately attack. Keep in mind these soldiers are not really "synthetic people" - they are basically enhanced drones built from pieces of a snapshot of a sapient conciseness. A person needs to have agency, and its pretty clear these bots do not. Which is probably the main thing that separates them from Adam and the other digitized human - no free will. (As much as there is such a thing in the universe). Which brings me to the other issue I have with your comment: Where have you seen organic slave soldiers? You might be able to force slaves on to the battlefield, but if you are going to arm them, they will turn on you the first chance they get. I am not big on history, but the only times I know of slaves being used in war was on galley ships, where they were used as an engine, bound to their seats, having to drop their waste in place, and constantly supervised and beaten. If Avor had an army of truly live slaves, organic or not, it would be an easy matter of getting them to defect without a fight. I heard rumors Ukraine is getting North Korean soldiers to defect with simple promise of food. The rumors may not be true, but the point is without hard programing of something that is more computer than sapient, the bot army would not be a threat! Which is why Osmani is totally right. I'we been re watching Doctor Who season 7 recently, and I am getting a serious cybermen vibe here. And it is cannon that if you leave one of those things operational, it will make more and kill you.
PhycoKrusk
It's worth considering that these are not actually people. I will elaborate: In Adam's case, so far as we know, they dumped his entire transcription into his chips and let him deal with the mess. In the case of the Krev soldiers, their transcripts were edited before upload. That means that unlike Adam, the Consortium only kept the parts that they needed/wanted, have added in the necessary controls to force them to be obedient and loyal, and have stated their plans to recollect, re-edit, and reupload those transcripts to new frames as often as they need to until they win, and beyond that. In short, the Consortium bots are not people; they are facsimiles of people that can act like people and that can problem solve, but are still, at the end of the day, artificial. The Consortium is, in essence, using edited copies of collected transcripts in order to fast-track AI deployment for their war machines.
Adam Myers
Maybe, but that is what I am meaning
Roscuro
I'm glad we're not dwelling too much on the battle details. But I think we'll really need some intimate interactions with SOMEONE from the ghost farsul. Even though they've been ousted for a while, we've still not had any character interact with them at all outside shooting them in the archive. I think it'd be good to have a 'Kalsim' from them to actually interact with the SC.
PhycoKrusk
Because they aren't salvageable: These soldiers are powered by old memory transcriptions that have been altered to make them obedient. They are no longer the individual they were copied from. If you want to get technical, these aren't even the original people; by editing the transcriptions, the Consortium has functionally killed them. Whatever is inside those shells is not whoever the transcript was taken from. Unlike Adam, whose transcripts was, so far as we know, just stuffed into a synthetic frame "as-is," these are facsimiles, not recreations.
PhycoKrusk
That's functionally the same outcome. The Shield broke under the same ideological weight the Condition is facing. The only difference is that with the Consortium and the Ghosts present, the Coalition has a common event to solidify against; the Shield did not have this.
PhycoKrusk
Straight to the doomsday option? Yes, because the calculus is only different from a non-pragmatic viewpoint. From the pragmatic viewpoint, this army of slave-soldiers that is totally obedient and functionally unlimited is, itself, a doomsday weapon. Unfortunately, the Consortium has forced the issue by demonstrating itself to be an existential threat not just to the Coalition, but to _everything._ It has become "grey goo."
TheBlack2007
Sure, but Meier became a politician through the office he held. Before that he was a Diplomat and even before they are officially hired and trained, Diplomats are expected to know their way around world history at least superficially.
Adam Myers
Eh, there are a lot of politicians that probably don’t know Sherman’s March. I would argue that the typical politician wouldn’t. Hence, it might be interesting to have that explained at some point (though I admit it is a quibble).
Adam Myers
@SpacePaladin15 Ah, thanks, sorry I forgot.
lostkerbal
https://media3.giphy.com/media/v1.Y2lkPTc5MGI3NjExc3pzNmlmNDhicXowNm02dmsyOTM1MTNnOXVlenRldjhzZm94YnZibyZlcD12MV9pbnRlcm5hbF9naWZfYnlfaWQmY3Q9Zw/h4Hz4w9Jgrc1EY9VkL/giphy.webp
DDDragoni
Osmani's willingness to write off the Consortium bots as casualties, despite working with Adam for so long, is concerning. Especially the "We either ensure none of them survive, or we wake up in twenty years ruled by their machines" line. I have the feeling Adam's still got quite the uphill battle for synthetic rights ahead of him
Some Lvm
Organic brains are only unhackable if you lack the knowledge and technology. And given the level of knowledge and technology needed to remotely read a mind, the way Krev security scanners do, the ability to write it, or at leas alter the thought processes should be just around the corner. Today many game companies hack human minds through psychological tricks, and that is enough to make them loads of money. Think what you can do with tech that can physically rewrite thoughts... Any way, since the name on the transcript officially changed, this means the Meir AI has completely broken down. I wonder how the other resurectee is doing...? Test sample of one is not a good indicator, but if she goes the same way as Meir, this tech will need to be reevaluated all together, since they aren't resurrecting anyone, they just using people as training data for an AGI, and no one definitely volunteered for that! Being brought back to life, even if not completely is one thing. Being put through a blender to create a new simulacrum of life is a whole other issue. And this again brings up the question: Is Adam actually a person? He isn't Elias, but he also would not function and be sapient without the transcript, so he isn't an original inorganic sapience either... Also, again with the skimping of detail on Grenelka - what gives? I really wanted to know the extent of the damage!
EliasArt2Life
Hmm… we seem to be skipping over the Remnant battle. Even the Ghosts seem to be faltering. They might still have a resurgence in strength, but the real battle seems to have shifted to Avor. I AM curious to one day hear the Ghosts’ response to the rest if the Farsul condemning them for their actions. We still have yet to see how the Ghosts react to their own people owing their lives to the kindness of Predators. Then again, they had a hand in the attack on Talsk, so maybe they don’t care about their own people any more. They HAVE been separated for about a millennia… Using a data based doomsday weapon on Avor is a risky play; this marks what will become the precedent case of how Synthetic beings are to be treated. Think about it; if the situation involved ORGANIC slave-soldiers, would they jump straight to the doomsday option? I think that they’d at least try to free and rescue as many as possible before destroying them all. If there’s not an attempt to raid Consortium servers and download as many transcripts as possible before unleashing hellfire, that will send a message that synthetic beings aren’t equal to organic ones. (If you are going to comment about how synthetic beings AREN’T equal to organic ones, DON’T. That’s not the point of this section; it’s about humanity’s stated beliefs, treating synthetics as equal, not matching up with their actions, and the potential ramifications of that.) I don’t think Avor is going to be able to avoid getting bombed. Their own tendency to create hidden groups and keep them hidden works against them; we can’t ever be sure unless the world is destroyed. The poetic justice is just a clincher. I feel sorry for Meier; I don’t think he’s getting that retirement, even AFTER the war. He’s probably going to have to be an advocate for synthetic rights for a long time afterwards. One issue I’m having with this series right now is that we are skipping around a little too much. It’s like the opposite of NOP1, where we would have long stretches of one perspective, to the point we were left begging for the others. Here, we swap between perspectives so often that we get whiplash and never really get to see the cliffhangers resolved; we see OTHER perspectives reacting to the cliffhangers. That’s fine once in a while, but at this point, it’s making the story a bit hard to follow. Or maybe it’s just me. Hardly stops me from enjoying the story, regardless.
TheBlack2007
@Space Paladin: Huh, nice additional lore drop right there. I had genuinely no idea and thought he was Austrian ever since his visit to Vienna but it does make sense in hindsight.
TheBlack2007
I'm German and I know enough about the American Civil War to have at least heard about General Sherman's march to the sea. Wouldn't say a significant number of us does but someone who spent decades as a UN Diplomat and was connected enough to be elected Secretary-General absolutely would have. Not even mentioning how this story is actually so common among the people of Earth that we do have our own equivalent: The Sack of Magdeburg back in 1613. And just like Elias, an equally long served American UN-Diplomat might know enough about our history to also have heard about it.
Space Paladin
Elias was Swiss!
Space Paladin
The Tevin were mentioned to have switched to side with the Remnants, unhappy with the Shield’s decision!
Gumcel
The Tevin are a part of The Shield right? If so then that means there's infighting amongst themselves, aka the death of their organization. Also rip krev lol.
Swan
eh, he's a UN diplomat with decades of experience; I'm guessing he knows the basic beats in the history of basically every country on earth. Heck we don't even know what his educational background is; and I know historians are not unusual within diplomacy Or he could just randomly have heard about it from somewhere; heck I know about Sherman's march and I'm a Scandinavian in a STEM field (though I do have a passion for history so idk)
Kevo
I think a emp will fry there systems to be unrepairable, or just really hard to fix
Byron Ritchie
True
Adam Myers
I like the chapter, but I would add some context for the Sherman reference. AFAIK, Adam is based on Elias, a German/Austrian. Thus would suggest some unfamiliarity with American history to that degree without explanation. Maybe I am overthinking it though.
REDemon14
Most battles and campaigns tend to be boiled down in key moments that are retold in history. A lot of people underestimate how long a battle or war was because of the fact. Meier is steadfast in his belief the galaxy must change. The ideology of the Federation and KC cannot rise again. A victory at Grenelka would greatly weaken Remnant forces. Fighting an alliance the size of the SC was always gonna go poorly for the Remnant who still have backwards ideals and methods of war. Add on to the fact that a good portion of the Shield have sided with the SC (besides the Tevin, get wrecked Tevin), now the Remnant are fighting a majority of the galaxy. Also good to know that the Shield finally picked a definitive side to be on. I understand neutrality, but that becomes a hindrance when one of the factions only wishes to consume or absorb like a flame. The attack on the Shield’s Sailor is the perfect example of it. When one side is so hateful and hellbent on the subjugation of others, they basically force the hands of the neutrals to pick the opposing side. Even better, the attack failed. So now the Remnant are basically up shit creek without a paddle at this point. The Sherman March is quite the apt image. Just break the enemy so thoroughly, they can never hope to retaliate. It’s interesting to see the mainline Farsul warm up to the carnivorous Bissem to the point of decrying the Ghost Farsul. Though, I suppose the Ghosts are *extremists* and the Bissem were kind enough to take some Farsul off Talsk, which is probably the greatest kindness they received in a few decades. Everyone is fallible and humanity tried to look and act perfect to their allies in fear of losing them. Now that that fear is gone, The UN/SC can truly move forward. It’s a big deal when *Zalk* starts to give you praise, even if it’s begrudging. It’s nice to see Adam give credit to Tassi. Little penguin deserves it! And the old men birds argue about fish XD Sounds about right What would an immortal do in a time of peace? Maybe Meier could adopt one of those “Osir” Jaslips. Become Papa Meier! The freedom he was never afforded as Elias. “Might we all be so lucky.” The peaceful life? Yes, I’d like that. The robo life? Not really. Let me die when my time comes. I’m pretty sure Zalk and Naltor argue just for the sake of arguing at this point. Might be fun for them XD The good people just want peace. The Orion arm has been a mess ever since the Kolshians figured out space flight. Most just wish to move on and grow in peace. However, there are always a few madmen who wish for more and are willing to abuse others for it. Now Meier has to deal with potential consequences of someone else abusing the tech that gave him a second chance at life. Fears of what could go wrong with it being realized by the KC. It’s a smart move for Adam and Osmani to address this issue immediately to nip it in the bud. As much as Meier may disagree with Korajan’s drive to glass any planet guilty of some wrong doing, in this case, it’s *slightly* more justifiable. When you have an enemy that just keeps coming back, you must destroy the source and I fear the only true way to do that is to either occupy Avor in totality or to destroy it. It’s interesting that the UN would just come out and say “We have doomsday cyber weapons we’ve been working on for years.” It goes to show the amount of trust the UN has for the SC at this point. Granted, it’s not like they can use the weapons and keep it a secret. Like how the US couldn’t hide the Nuke once they used it. Yeah, when you make a robot army, you better have a strong firewall. While I do understand Adam’s issue with the current plan and some would consider these synthetics “slaves” to the KC would shouldn't suffer the consequences of their masters, however, the Legion are actually worse than slaves as they are both consciously and subconsciously under KC control, like those fungi that take over the brain of an insect. They aren’t them anymore. Yeah, the species who are most familiar with primates tell a sapient primate to “Do your worst”, you should know those were very poorly chosen words. Our allies are about to see humans with little restraint. At least it’s only robots this time. Meier should have more faith in Virnt, he’s an autistic bug, not evil. The evacuation plan is gonna be a hard one to pull off. Here’s hoping it’s only Avor that needs it. I do wonder where the bio-Krev will go when they get evacuated. Probably Earth and any colonies with high human populations. Maybe they’ll get in spats with the Venlil over humanity’s best friend status XD. Also hoping Taylor and Gress (Maybe Cherise and Quana) can save Lecca. Gress needs some peace of mind. Looking forward to more!
Alekss Žukovskis
as we know from Alan Turing, no system is completely impenetrable. one needs only computational power, which computers you gain along the way, provide. the war feeds itself, as the saying goes.
Space Paladin
That’s definitely why it has to end here, the KC will be prepared after your hand is shown! You get one shot at taking down the network 😅
Space Paladin
Literally the dumbest thing to say to humans! Thats a green light 😅
Space Paladin
The Bissem were the only ones who took them in!
Michael Halpern
Leaving sufficient infrastructure intact would only invite them to make more drones there to harrass their flanks, or strike at less defended worlds
Byron Ritchie
I knew the sc was going to press agaisnt the feds and the cons but not to “Sherman’s march” levels I’m not complaining though Also as cheesy said it’s nice to see the farsul reject their cringer brethren and shed their anti predator ways
Michael Halpern
because they don't have the time, or enough information on the systems the digitized krev run on, and cyber weapons are perishable, the vulnerabilities used to get into a system are usually only useable once, or for a short period except in the case of social engineering your way in. Social engineering not being a viable option here they have to make their one shot count.
Cheesy Power
It’s great to see that the Farsul are aligning themselves with the Bissem fully in response to learning about the Ghosts- kindness given has become kindness returned! Which just goes to show that being good to people is far more effective at changing their mindsets.
Alekss Žukovskis
if i was adam when they looked at him with distrust. if it was me...
Kingarthur
If they can be hacked to be killed i see no reason they can't be put into hibernation and delt with later. Why pull the plug if you can just switch them off and determine if they're salvageable or not. Maybe it'll work maybe it won't but they could at least try
Enzo Leon
Telling humans to do our worst is like signing a blank check. This is going to end messy.
Swan
The cyber attack should only work if all the digital clones are connected to some central network; which is quite likely considering the Krev would want a kill switch/control over them. I'm curious if the next version of these "clones" wouldn't be connected to a network due to the incoming cyberattack , and if the attack will even work due to the consortium being so strong on tech. Good chapter, looking forward to more :)
Conner Deese
Can't wait to see humanity pull out the "it's not a war crime the first time" argument on the Krev
pogman
adam yey
