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The Nature of Predators 2-68
🕑 Added 2024-08-29 11:00:08 +0000 UTCMemory Transcription Subject: Elias Meier, Former UN Secretary-General
Date [standardized human time]: December 22, 2160
As little faith as the United Nations had in our SC allies to remain steadfast, it said a lot that the Venlil were included in this briefing; their interests were inseparable from ours. We entrusted them with the uncensored truth and authentic reactions, and wanted them to be included in our talks about how to move forward. Humanity had come to love these fluffballs as our own, so I hoped this didn’t shake their faith in our unbreakable friendship. It shouldn’t, in theory, since the ark colonists hadn’t gone anywhere near attacking Skalga. This would have the optics of the Humanity First attack that killed me, amplified by a thousand; it’d reveal who our true friends were. If the Venlil wouldn’t receive assurances over the first Terran-initiated war since first contact, none of our allies would.
“It’s a pleasure to meet you, Governor. Thank you for coming on such short notice. I’m Elias Meier,” I extended a hand to Governor Laisa as she stood to meet me, but she ignored it, instead pulling me in for a hug. The embrace caught me off-guard, since I’d never had a dignitary lead with such an introduction, but I gave her a gentle pat on the back. How to appropriately return a Venlil’s hug wasn’t in my diplomatic training decades ago, and during first contact, no alien would’ve willingly touched a human. “I’m so terribly sorry that my species was involved in an attack on civilians.”
Laisa chuckled while retaking her seat, an amusement which seemed out of place. “You haven’t done yourself any favors by painting humans as cuddly, harmless, and peaceful. You can be all of those things, but when provoked or threatened, you’re incredibly dangerous.”
The Venlil think we’re dangerous. Great, just great. “That’s true, I suppose. Humans can be driven to violence, if desperate enough, which is no excuse.”
“Don’t misinterpret me. I always knew this about you, and the same can be said of us. We’re both highly emotional species, and when you feel fear or anger strongly, the results write themselves. These colonists must’ve been hurt, lonely, and afraid for decades: beyond the fright I’ve seen from refugees on Skalga, since they believed every human on Earth was slain.”
“I appreciate you empathizing with their behavior, and I do as well; the fear and uncertainty are no doubt what led to this. However, this could’ve been avoided had they answered a simple hail, and not fired blindly at civilian targets.”
“Who would’ve expected those humans to talk to their people’s murderers? They had valid reasons to attack the Federation; many of the SC’s members also wanted those worlds to face judgment for their crimes. While I think enough blood has been spilled, my legs will never be unmangled. I suspect these humans’ hearts will never be either.”
I relaxed a bit, relieved that Laisa sympathized with these humans’ plights, rather than condemning them as monsters. “Some of the galaxy’s scars have yet to heal. I think the ones who ordered the attack should face consequences, but the human colonists have suffered enough. The United Nations will likely welcome them back to Earth, though that’s…complicated by the millions of babies born.”
“It’ll be difficult to reintegrate with Earth’s society, especially hearing that you regale yourselves among alien company. Accept that they may not want to return. Perhaps consider what is to become Tinsas…or Tellus, since its ownership may be of value to both sides.”
“The Sivkits will not appreciate humans trying to keep their world; they wanted nothing to do with us for twenty-four years, and now, they’ll know those ark colonists fired on their expedition ships. If these Tellus miners, and the Krev, want peace, they’ll cede back the homeworld the Federation stole from the Sivkits, once we explain the planet’s dark history.”
“Oh, they’re aware. You’re really not caught up, are you?” Laisa tapped a button on her holopad, translating the briefing material to English so I could read it. “The Consortium found a thousand-year-old bunker, which according to Taylor’s transcript, had a recording from an ancient Sivkit general. It made mention of a Sivkit Grand Farmdom, wilderness theater, and even the Federation torching their world and causing the spine disorder. This general knew as it was happening.”
I gaped at Laisa. “Original records survived the Farsul cover-up? They must’ve been sloppier in the early days; the Sivkits have the right to know about this.”
“As someone whose species was also crippled, I agree. Knowing Skalga’s history helped us reclaim it. I do hope they can be who they once were, one day, not the wandering devourers they are today.”
General Jones cleared her throat. “Well I’m delighted you two get along so fancifully, but we can worry about Greenpeace saving the Sivkits later. Most of us in this room would like to extract intelligence from the Krev prisoner—”
“I don’t like the word ‘extract,’ Jones. What do you mean by that?” I hissed.
“Nothing, as long as Gress complies. This is your chance to wave that olive branch. We need to know more about the Krev, to have an advantage in peace talks.”
“This isn’t about finding every little edge on them. Has all of human history—and what just happened to Aafa and Talsk—taught you nothing about imposing harsh conditions in a peace treaty?”
Jones smiled menacingly. “Our diplomats need a leg to stand on, when we ask for certain concessions, Elias. We have many considerations to take into account; the entire Orion Arm is a house of cards, which could fall down around us with a wrong move. The Yulpa and the Arxur proved me right at Aafa, and that will only escalate from here on out. Take caution that you don’t trade peace with the Krev for multiple wars in our backyard.”
“We will talk to the Krev, Jones, not make them scapegoats and coerce their prisoners, just to take the heat off of us.”
“Of course. You’re putting words in my mouth.”
“Am I now?”
The spymaster general’s smile widened. “The Krev has been well-treated by the soldiers. I’ll patch us into a video call they’ve set up, and we’ll have a nice conversation. Just make sure he tells you what we need to know.”
I didn’t dignify that implied threat with an answer, wishing I was someone with actual authority, instead of a stand-in, to remove the brazen general from her cushy command position. Jones knew she could play games with me, given the exhaustive list of foreign ministers, SC liaisons, and UN undersecretaries that would be discussed to take the Secretary-General’s chair. Of the people in this room, General Osmani might be a prudent option; a military officer could handle the stresses of wartime, but he had diplomatic practice. Then again, nominating any kind of martial figurehead to lead Earth might signal to wary parties that the UN’s aim was war, or that we were joining our packmates’ attack. Kuemper might’ve been right to parade me around in the immediate aftermath, given that Earth had erected statues of me as some grandiose peacemaker.
If Jones makes good on her implied threats, I won’t remain silent. She can test me, but she better not push me. I can’t believe she’s saying such things with a Venlil in the room, when we’re trying to assure our allies that we aren’t violent!
A scaly, emerald green creature appeared on the screen, seated in a metal chair in an interrogation room; a glass of water rested in front of him, though I could see the alien was perturbed. He had curved claws that matched his scales’ coloration, and a lighter underbelly that seemed to have soft, stretchy skin. Gress’ posture was hunched over, almost as if he wanted to sink into the fetal position. His shiny, enlarged pupils turned toward the screen, struggling to look straight at us with side-facing eyes. I peeked at Laisa’s file, and noted that while he’d once been in the military, he was a noncombatant; his discharge, according to Trench’s transcript, was for attacking a Resket general after learning the Consortium killed Jaslip children. That entire sentence brought a displeased frown to my face.
The Krev stared at the panel of human leaders, sniffing the air like he was unsure of himself. “Hello? Whatever I can do to help…nothing the Consortium did was justified. We suffered…Taylor suffered…for nothing.”
“Let me lead off with one very important question,” Jones jumped in, which led me to stare daggers. “There are many pages here about how you exploited our colonists and how much they despised you; you, personally, collected mineral rent from them. How did you ever justify that treatment of our people, and why should we, the United Nations, accept that?”
“I…we just wanted them gone, nonviolently, from Tellus. Our whole shtick was avoiding the Federation, and not doing anything that risked detection.” The Krev seemed to swoon a bit, studying Jones. “As soon as we realized they were victims, we felt terrible; we tried to protect the humans, and give them everything we could! Our diplomats will have a major problem interacting with you, and having to take you seriously, since apparently, the cutest species in the galaxy is a great military power…”
“Cutest species in the galaxy? I thought that was us,” Laisa whispered coyly. “How does he look at that face and…never mind.”
The spymaster seemed at a loss for words, after hearing Gress’ ramblings. “The consensus is widely against us being the cutest species in the galaxy. Hideous abominations is the more common phrase tossed our direction.”
“Literally how? Don’t get me wrong—I’m devastated for my people, I’m worried about my daughter, and I’m extra concerned for Taylor: you do need to keep an eye on him. With all of that, I’m trying to treat this situation with the appropriate gravity it requires, but I’m melting that I’m talking to the primate leaders! Those little medals clipped to your jacket are so precious. You must sound so festive and jingly when you walk, like Christmas decorations and…ah! I adore how much humans love and collect shiny things. There’s got to be so many of you, happy and alive and singing carols in the streets! Making paper snowflakes! Building cookie houses: how can that not be cute?”
“Is this a joke to you? Do you have any idea what a mess you’ve made for us—ruining twenty-three years of peace and prosperity that we paid for in blood, and have self-flagellated to maintain?”
“Of course not! The Krev are going to be heartbroken that we threatened you, and were your enemy. We were trying to help humans not to get hurt, feeling nothing but fury on your behalf. I was just sad and not getting at all how the galaxy’s consensus is that you’re ugly; that’s so cruel and untrue. We’ll call you cute if we’re the only ones in this universe who do! My heart breaks for you still—poor things.”
“You speak of us like we’re children. Why don’t you try to be actually helpful, instead of focusing on paper snowflakes, and harping in that patronizing voice about how ‘cute’ we are. Have a little respect.”
“Would you rather I focused on how my people spent decades hiding from an enemy that no longer existed, one that humans easily dealt with? If we’d taken a stand, we could’ve saved Earth from being bombed at all!”
Jones’ mouth tightened in frustration. “You are not making yourself helpful, Gress. The past is—”
“Or should I worry about whether I’ll ever see my daughter again; she has no idea I’m even alive!” The Krev’s eyes wobbled, and he slammed his claws on the table; it became obvious to me he was internally volatile, and trying to distract himself with…the primates he apparently found cute. “Maybe I should think about how, if you were to let us go this very minute, the love of my life would leave and return to Earth? I’m only trying to be happy for his sake!”
I raised a hand, shooting Jones a look that could melt glaciers. “You said you were worried about Taylor. Why?”
“Isn’t it obvious? He already felt guilty over his role in the Sivkit deaths, and has PTSD from a mining accident that resulted in human casualties under his orders, in response to a situation I put him into. He was sent away to a dismal alien planet, away from his family and everything he knew, for nothing; his life was stolen! I can picture how angry he is right now, knowing how deeply he resented that life. The sacrifice the colonists made was a pointless one, and before long, he’ll start thinking he is the reason the Tellus settlers didn’t find out their people survived sooner.”
“Gress…I understand exactly what it’s like to grapple with personal responsibility, when people die under your watch or because of your decisions. The fault rarely falls on a single person’s shoulders.”
“I know that. I blamed myself for years…I was a hostage negotiator, and children were slaughtered on my watch as the world looked on. Those images can’t be rationalized. They don’t go away.”
“Believe me, I would understand better than most. Let’s say I’ve seen things no one was meant to see.” If I looked back deep enough in my brain, I could still see the few seconds of images passing before my eyes that made up my entire life. All I was. The infinite incomprehensible darkness that made the real world feel distant and agitating by comparison, and the coldness permeating into my bones as I faded away. “Right now, you and Taylor are playing a role in reconciling Tellus and Earth. It won’t be easy, but the best way to honor the ones we’ve lost is to make peace. I want to know if your people are amenable to that.”
Gress nodded emphatically, demonstrating familiarity with our body language. “Of course we are. We never had a…plan to open up our borders, or to seek peace with anyone in your area, but if the herbivores have changed, we might treat you like other Consortium races. I doubt we’d join your Coalition, or anything like that; we’ll still want space, I wager. Want the war to end today? Speak with Resket General Radai, not the bureaucrats that will fumble for a response. He’s compelled by honor, so if you can speak that tongue, he’ll try to right his forces’ wrongs.”
“Can Radai call off the drone attacks?” General Liu, who I vaguely remembered had been listed under the names of Undersecretaries during Zhao’s Secretary-General tenure, spoke up. “The war cannot end while you’re waging open warfare against us, and our allies.”
Ambassador Marston nodded. “I have the same question. The drones haven’t stood down, even after Captain Sylvia’s communique reached Consortium parties, and our data suggests they’re incapable of calling it off. The Duerten would have a very long memory of any attack on Kalqua. They were already devastated in the war. They’ll demand retribution in kind, or even an execution of leaders like Radai.”
“Radai, I imagine, would willingly turn himself over, or even…execute himself. The Reskets have such a practice, as well as war crime laws that would call for it. I urge you not to push for that, whatever he’s presided over; it would be a terrible mistake,” Gress commented. “He’s the only one trying to expose the corrupt surveillance apparatus of the Underscales and the Listeners. He will act with honor, and do what is best to preserve lives.”
Jones slammed a fist on the table. “Radai has done the opposite of saving lives. Billions of people are dead by the attack that he launched; it’s laughable that you think we’d let this go.”
“That’s not for us to decide here. He should have a trial and a chance to speak for himself,” I fired back. “The genocides must be answered for, but securing peace, without any more planets falling to bombings, is our top priority. If Radai will help us do that, then we should reach out to him.”
The Krev squinted at me. “Perhaps this is impolite to point out, but something about you seems off. You’re not quite like the other humans. I swear, I’ve seen your face before; I watched a video of a man giving a speech, before the Krakotl’s attack. You bear a stunning resemblance to him, yet it’s like you haven’t aged a day. Is the stress of this conundrum playing tricks on me?”
“It’s not. I was Secretary-General when Taylor would’ve left Earth. When I tell you I know what it’s like to have disturbing memories, I’m saying I remember death itself. You’re familiar with memory transcripts; mine was used to bring me back. My brain recreated inside a machine.”
Concern stretched across Gress’ features. “You were digitally reincarnated?! Of course, if they have all the wiring of the brain mapped…why has the Consortium not thought to do this? Surely, they must have, with all of the Trombil’s investing in cybermods and digital ascension. They scorn their physical bodies, and nobody ever raised the prospect. I fear what they could’ve done, without us ever knowing…”
“What are you saying?” General Almeida spoke, her voice stern.
“It seems like he’s suggesting that the Consortium could’ve mimicked Elias’ technology, but it seems hypothetical. Do you have any evidence of this?” Kuemper asked, as I shot a mystified look toward her. “Why are you worried about your people having this technology at all?”
“Because then they would be immortal. What if the delegates aren’t dead, not truly? What if they could put a stand-in for anyone, a replacement they could control? This—this is terrible. They have my scans from when I was a negotiator! They could put me in a simulation of that day, figure out how I’d react; oh no. They could create virtual torture chambers, and put hundreds of instances of your family—the people you love—in there to manipulate you. You have to destroy the scans! This technology is monstrous. Make them take down the scanners, before they get you too!”
The Krev’s hysterics were panicked and not making much sense. Given his state of mind, I suspected we’d gotten the last intelligible answer out of him, and signaled for Jones to disconnect the call. A silence hung over the room, as we tried to determine how to proceed with the Consortium. Should we direct our conversations to this Radai? Was there any chance that Gress’ fear had some truth to it? I’d worried to Virnt over how easily this technology could be abused. If these aliens were the type to misappropriate such resources, did we want to make a permanent peace with them? I was open to suggestions from the assembled specialists and generals, as long as General Jones didn’t display intrigue in using any of those hypotheticals ourselves.
I know we need to get the drones to stand down from Kalqua; that means we should seek peace, at least until we achieve that end. We need to learn more about the Consortium’s highest echelons of government, and their true intentions. We also should protect the SC, in case the KC try anything else against us. Gress says they don’t want war with humans, yet they never planned for peace with the herbivores.
I forced a sickly-sweet smile onto my face. “We need a plan. Since Jones has made her position abundantly clear already, I turn the floor over to the rest of you for concerns and observations.”
“I think that we should consider how people at home are going to react. It’s easy to look to the rest of the galaxy, but the UN will have family reunions, and accommodations similar to the Archives humans, to oversee,” General Osmani commented, while I filed away a mental checkmark toward his Secretary-General suitability. “What do you say of setting up a program, for both sides to check in on surviving relatives? As well as having our diplomatic staff draft a press release for the UN’s socials and domestic channels.”
“That seems reasonable to me. I imagine we all agree we can’t turn our backs on the ark colonists. Any other suggestions?”
“Contact this Radai, and see what terms he’d seek for a peace.” Laisa perked her ears up, confidence emanating from her posture. “Taylor’s transcript supports that he’d be a likely ally. He’s useful to us both as someone that the SC will want us to hold responsible, and as someone who’d have sway and intelligence among the Consortium.”
General Jones’ eyes gleamed. “I agree, though I suppose my opinions are abundantly clear. We need information on these Underscales and Listeners, and I find it difficult to believe the head of the military would’ve been unaware altogether. He was digging into their exploits.”
“What do we do about the Osirs?” Kuemper blurted. “Jaslips—whatever. We have millions of babies within our borders…”
“And so do they with us,” General Monahan commented. “We have custody of that ship, and we’re not sure what to do with the children: deliver them on our watch? Bring them back to Sol, without a support system, or what—give them to the Consortium, who can’t be trusted and might not even want them?”
I raised a finger. “One thing at a time. We’ll want to establish diplomatic relations with all species, or at least try to; regardless of whether we’re enemies, having open channels can only be an advantage. The Jaslips should be one of the first we establish contact with, and we can see how they feel about the…Osirs. We don’t need to offend them by raising their children, outside of their culture.”
“It might look a lot like what was done to Skalga, taking Venlil children away to gentle them through upbringing,” Laisa commented. “I have another question as well. While I’m honored to be included, as the sole alien official in this room, I’m curious why none of your other allies are here. The Yotul’s exclusion is self-explanatory, with your rivalry, but the Zurulians have been nothing but supportive, accepting, and altruistic. They stood with Earth, pulling humans out of the rubble. Why aren’t they here?”
“That’s an excellent question. I’m curious to hear the answer.”
General Jones rolled her eyes. “Elias, the Zurulians will be brought in eventually. If we want to keep a lid on this, until we’re ready to make a statement to the SC, they couldn’t be in this room. Laisa ‘isn’t here’ officially. The Zurulians have been keeping company with many of our adversaries, who we couldn’t risk capitalizing on this.”
“Surely the Yotul know about this. They were involved in sending the scout ship,” Kuemper objected. “There were other SC species in the boarding party.”
“I never said the Yotul weren’t involved, though it’s unfortunate that they got the live feeds. They won’t drop a bombshell that will create open warfare, but it makes this impossible to contain or tidy up. All I’m saying is we don’t need the Zurulians telling the Bissems, who would turn and tell the Arxur. The Technocracy, at least, isn’t so naive.”
I pressed a palm to my forehead. “Did you think to impress on the Zurulians the secrecy of this all? We can trust them not to turn on us, so I don’t think we want to alienate any of our closest allies right now. Laisa is right; they should’ve been here. Their medical expertise will be crucial in learning the biological requirements for the Krev we have in our custody, as well as saving the human prisoner that’s in critical condition.”
“Zurulian doctors are already working on both tasks, back on the ship. They haven’t made contact with their government yet, but we could allow them to do so,” General Monahan piped up, shooting a side-eyed glance at Jones. “They stood with us when it mattered, and sent aid to every dark corner of the galaxy. I imagine they’ll offer help to the Tellus refugees. Let’s show them a little faith in response.”
I drew a shuddering breath. “Speaking of faith, we need to notify Ambassador Korajan, before this is shared with the SC. Since he and I are personally acquainted, I believe I should be the one to deliver the news. They need to make preparations. I trust I have the consensus of the generals to pledge our aid to Kalqua?”
“Of course,” General Osmani replied. “Remind Korajan that humanity saved their home once. That’s a reason for his people to extend some faith to us.”
I nodded in agreement, before dismissing the assembled group; I needed to summon the Duerten ambassador, since I knew this news was going to crater our improved relations with his species and the Shield in general. Jones might’ve been right that we couldn’t risk this news getting out, without us having control of our messaging. The war between the Arxur and the Federation remnants hadn’t even been touched, but it jeopardized our peacetime further; we had to take this fiasco one step at a time, like I’d told Kuemper. While our diplomatic corps prepared all the necessary measures to make this announcement to the SC, I was going to try to save our friendship with one ally we couldn’t afford to lose.
A/N - A lot to unpack: I hope your heads aren’t spinning too much, because Meier’s certainly is! Governor Laisa (who we just got a one-shot on) was quite empathetic with the Tellus refugees, and is the first to suggest they may not wish to leave their new planet: which would not go over well with the Sivkits. Jones wants every scrap of information that might be useful from Gress, and this Machiavellian rhetoric causes her to butt heads with Meier. She very much does not appreciate the Krev’s commentary on how jingly her “cute” medals are…
Then, there’s the content of what the Krev has to say: suggesting that the SC should reach out to Radai to secure quick results, missing his daughter and regretting the KC’s folly, and expressing his concern for Taylor’s mental welfare, along with the fact that he might move back to Earth. When Gress realizes that Meier was brought back from a transcript, he freaks out. Our scaly captive in panics about the potential scenarios of blackmails be torture that the Underscales could use it for, and suggests some fantastical conspiracies—demanding that the scans are destroyed.
What do you think of who humanity chose to include, and not include, in their briefing; should other allies have been brought into the loop early? How will Ambassador Korajan take the news that Kalqua was in the next wave of targets? Do you think there’s any credence to Gress’ reaction to AI Meier?
As always, thank you for reading and supporting!
Comments
richfiles
I'm terrible with names... Who is Ari again?
PhycoKrusk
It's also worth noting that anyone in command of a ship is referred to as "Captain" regardless of their actual rank.
PhycoKrusk
As I said elsewhere, Jones is arrogant enough to assume that what she wants is what the UN wants (even if they can't say so for political reasons), and what Humanity as a whole wants (even if they _won't_ admit it because they're delusional). She is enslaved by pride. It may be her own pride, but she is a slave to it all the same. Unfortunately, I also believe that she is not so arrogant that she'll stand too close to any of her petards.
Wholesome Redditter
Nah, I’d YouTube it
Sci-fi reader
Why? A USAF colonel can have between 1000 to 3000 airmen reporting to him / her.
Some Lvm
@Elias: this sounds a bit contrived to me. First off, specifically with your example, to simulate that hostage situation you would need the scans of the terrorists too, otherwise you might overshoot your target when they kill the nosy negotiator or miss the target all together when they get in the way of your operator. Surely there is a simpler way to gain this knowledge by profiling the individual. Obviously memory scans would go a long way to help build this profile, but through analysis rather than simulation. If you have AI than can detect PTSD in seconds, you don't need to brute force the solution by running millions of scenarios. I am not familiar with the case of the baby, but it sounds like a Pavlovian response to me. Though as far as I know Pavlov only experimented with dogs, not humans... There is a huge distance between creating an aversion or a negative association, and "molding a person in to anything they want". No, if he got the baby to love asparagus or broccoli or something, that might have been a more convincing experiment...
EliasArt2Life
I’m just going to clarify something; the torture isn’t about information extraction. Gress suspects that they’re using memory transcripts of still living people (like him) to simulate not what they have done, but what the WILL do. Things like, how do we make this upcoming hostage negotiation go wrong in order to break this nosey hostage negotiator’s psyche? Run 1,000,000 simulations on the quantum computer over the next 10 minutes. Ah, there’s a 98% chance that, if one of the children is shot in the neck, so that they survive for a short time, Gress will come over and attempt to stop the bleeding. Then dying in his arms will break him. Problem; the simulation suggests that the terrorists will not have the guts to shoot their own children, so we need an operative there to do it for them, but make it look like their fault. The use of memory transcripts as torture isn’t about torturing the memory, but about learning the best way to break the real person. It’s also not about extracting information, but about controlling their actions. One psychologist once claimed that if he had complete knowledge of someone, and control of the stimulus they were exposed to, he could turn them into whatever person he desired. As a demonstration he gave a baby a fear of rats over about a month by ringing a loud bell whenever the baby touched a lab rat. It was a SICK experiment, and dumbs down humans to just being preprogrammed biological machines (which isn’t entirely true, but true enough for this concept to have some credence), but it looks like this may be what the Listeners and Underscales are about.
EliasArt2Life
Well, Gress lasted all of 1 and a half minutes before breaking down to cuteness overload… this role reversal gets less entertaining by the day… I’ll give him a pass since he’s trying to hold back a panic attack, but it’s still a bad look for the Krev, and he more or less admitted that the diplomats will be the same. Jones is being insufferable. She’s barely even hiding her desire to exploit and manipulate the Krev. Given that Space Paladin even called her rhetoric “Machiavellian” in the post chapter summary, I think it’s getting more and more confirmed that she is a Machiavellian personality. DEFINITELY keep her away from the Listeners and Underscales. Someone who only sees social interactions as an opportunity to manipulate and control would be unlikely to resist the lure of two organizations based around that. I think Gress had a point. I mentioned this previously, but the Listeners and Underscales not only knew about the terrorist hostage situation, before it happened, but they ALSO knew that they needed an operative there to kill the kits. I always found that odd; they seemed to know too much. Gress is right; they have a compilation of EVERYONE’s memory transcripts, constantly updated whenever someone goes through a scanner, and can run those through any number of simulations. The Listeners KNEW the terrorists wouldn’t have the heart to shoot their kits, because they had perfect representations of their minds to predict their actions with. They KNEW that killing the kits, and timing it so one would die in his arms, would break Gress because they had his memory transcripts and the simulations said it would. Things are worse than I thought. Red flags doesn’t seem to cut it. This is an Infrared flag moment.
TheBlack2007
@Neu5Ac Considering these ships have hundreds of crew and are operated much like Naval Vessels I would argue Navy rank structures make more sense. Air Force Ranks would make more sense in Planetary Defense
DrewTheHobo
Well hell, I’d vote for ya!
Neu5Ac
If she commands a space ship, they may prefer air force ranks, or possibly their own arrangements.
PhycoKrusk
@Lvm So we agree that he's a weirdo.
Sci-fi reader
The books are quiet different from the Netflix shows. More grit.
Luiz Henrique Alves
Considering that now Humanity is one of the top dogs in galactic military power and now they can focus in defending only your planet instead of 3 at the same time, and that the duerten proved not to be fully retarded, they should keep their beaks closed at least until this war ends and the peace negotiations start
Luiz Henrique Alves
Considering he's just a temp employee, albeit a very famous one, it shouldn't as it seem the rest of UN's "council" seems to have the power to impeach him if he do goofy hard enough
Some Lvm
@StormTheSquid: You assume I am laying out all the details of my plan, which I am not. These are the basics. As for Jones, the trick with people like that is to remove their need to play you, rather than having to obtain eyes on the back of your head. If your goals and her's align sufficiently, you can work together well. See, most people on here expect the UN, the SC, and the KC to be holier than though. And like Meir for his "infinite peace" approach. I don't. I think the Fed remnants can only be dealt with by force, and should have been dealt with 20 years ago. I think the Arxur are sufficiently rehabilitated to be let out, and this is the perfect time to do it to avoid making them an enemy again, and risking their society devolving back to Betterment ideology. And I think any member of the SC who still has problem with a species just because they are carnivores, should not be an SC member. Also, on the KC side, I see two options: Finish the Jaslip genocide, or dump them all back on Esque and make sure they stay there. With their proclivity to terrorism, no doubt they will burn the Consortium after finding out the Feds were gone for over 20 years, but burning the consortium means death and suffering for billions of innocent people, and that is unacceptable to me.
Luiz Henrique Alves
If Monahan was a Ship Captain, shouldn't she be an Admiral instead of a General?
Luiz Henrique Alves
Considering my personal experience living in a city with milions of habitant's and we still go through something like in a weekly basis no matter in what part of the city you are that day, I would say it's not really unlikely Alekss, specially considering that the story focuses mostly on influential and somewhat famous people's point of view and theres usually few of that kind of people so one meeting another is not that unlikely
Some Lvm
@Edmund: don't have much time for leisure reading these days. Maybe I'll look in to getting the audio version if there is one. Just how different is it from the series though? In the show, the tech is quite different from what is described in NoP, even if there are some similarities.
Luiz Henrique Alves
And I'm glad you couldn't help it for it made me laugh
Some Lvm
@DeamonVee: I don't see it that way. Nothing I read in NoP 2 so far makes the Yotul "stand-offish". If anything, psychologically they are the closest to humans of all NoP species, including the Skalgans. Obviously, they have their own national interest, and they are amassing power, but I would trust them with such a thing a lot more than the Zurulians. The problem with the Zurulians is they are too nice. Don't forget - even while helping humans rebuild, they almost imprisoned two doctors for eating some plant mush shaped like a meat product! Because they see what the Feds done to them as fairly harmless, they were not in any rush to shake off their Fed brainwashing. (I remember their leader saying something to that effect in NoP 1, how he loves being a doctor, and does not care if the Feds brought it on) They are still way too sensitive, too pacifist. Jones is right that they can not be trusted with stuff like this. The colonists involvement can be downplayed easily, after all they did not participate in any combat aside from the first encounter, and their leader did not take part in a vote to launch the drone strike, in fact there was no such vote as I recall. Incidentally, most of the people in the SC, don't really care about the billions killed in this war since they were Kolshian and Farsul. Its the same SC that didn't even bother to show up to defend Aafa, while the Yotul did! Heck, they don't even really like the Sivkits, and are being kind of racist towards them.
Luiz Henrique Alves
I hope it gets increased and then leveled up with cloned bodies so you wont get stuck in a machine, but the weakness of my flesh still disgust me!
StormTheSquid
Problem here is that almost every step in your plan is predicated on a previous step succeeding, and on the other people involved to not screw it up somehow. Also, your first mistake is thinking you could ever use an intelligence officer as someone not trained in such things. Jones would play you like a fiddle.
DemonVee
The problem is that the Yotul "shouldn't" be rivals, but that doesn't change the fact that they are. They were introduced in NoP2 as already stand offish, and being eager to get any one up against Humanity. They managed to put their differences "mostly" aside when faced with an existential threat, and it would be ideal if they managed to settle things for the sake of the Orion arm. However, giving that this meeting is essentially about sugar coating Humanity partial involvement as catalysts for the conflict, it wouldn't be wise to tempt the Technocracy with info that they could use to smear the UN and take complete hold over the SC. What is a true mistake is not trusting the Zurulians, I'm certain they could have been trusted with being on the in the know.
Sci-fi reader
Read Altered Carbon.
Some Lvm
I recently learned "defenestration" is a legitimate word in the English language...
Some Lvm
Considering all the trauma he has been through, I would not use Gress as a test case for all Krev. I mean he is in love with Taylor, of all people! Go ahead - tell me it because of Taylor's personality, I dare you! (No, I still don't understand how Gress can see Taylor as anything but a creature half way between a pet and a child, which really makes their new relationship mode creepy and disgusting for me)
Some Lvm
Well, actually... Nah, I am not ruining this! Just remember: if Meir was a ghost, he is now in a machine :P (Nope, couldn't help it)
Some Lvm
Well dang! So, lets get something simple out of the way: VR torture chambers are BS. What point is there in torture when you have the tech to instantly pull any information directly from someone's brain? As for blackmail, it sounds a bit too contrived. Torturing a virtual copy of someone's family? The Underscales already proved they have no moral restrains, if they needed leverage, they would kidnap and torture the real thing. Now, for the complex part: I think the current situation is not a problem. Its an opportunity! If only the UN had proper leadership... Meir still treats Laisa, whom I adore by the way, like she is some scared, Fed brainwashed, first contact Venlil. And this is after he visited Skalga and saw that the Skalgans, unmodded or not, are nothing like the people Noah met when he first stepped off his ship. So, here is what I would do, were I granted his position: Step 1: Take Jones aside and find out what she is after. Find a way to make a deal and work with her, so she is an asset and not a hindrance. Step 2: Use Jones to make sure the other generals or some other party don't pull a coup on me. Step 3: Have a professional interrogator deal with Gress. Interviewing random POWs in front of a government body is not a good idea or useful practice. Step 4: Take at least 24 hours to study Taylor's transcripts and Gresse's interrogation recordings. Step 5: Bring Yotul and Venlil brass to discuss the plan for resolving the situation. Yes Yotul - they are not, and should not be rivals, they should be peers. Step 6: Contact Radai, and who ever replaced the Consortium representatives separately, see what we can get from each. Step 7: Give a speech to the rest of the SC and the Shield blaming the war on Federation legacy. Force SC members to reaffirm commitment to not discriminating people based on diet (disclose Esquo massacre and evacuation). Strongly imply any one opposed can GTFO. Step 8: Use the momentum to grant Bissems full membership. Step 9: Request the Shield to send Fed remnants a message that if they proceed with war on the Arxur, the UN and the SC will finish what hey started in the last war. At the same time, contact Kizal directly and let him know Earth has his back, but please don't make a move on the Feddies first. Use freedom of movement for the Arxur to be pushed through the SC as insentive. Step 10: Make Consortium pay reparations to the Sivkits for the colonial fleet massacre by flipping the bill and providing the tech to terraform and rebuild all of Tinsas so Sivkits can resettle it. Get Sivkits in return to agree to let the Ark 3 settlers keep their one tiny area and continue living there if some of them decide to stay. Give generous return grants to settlers to reduce that number. Also, maybe an orange tax :P Step 11: Suggest to Consortium they pacify the Jaslips by restoring Esquo. Since the Fed threat is no more, the planet can be safely resettled. Offer SC aid in the rebuilding, and use that as an opportunity to get rid of the Jaslip clone babies, integrating them in to their native culture. And that's it pretty much. Have a tenuous but stable peace in the galaxy. The only remaining problem is that in universe, I would not know about the shadow Farsul, but I think the Bissems with some help from the Arxur can do a much better job exterminating them than the UN. I would just have to make sure whatever they do is properly covered up. Jones can handle that.
Xaelitry
Huge agree
Kevo
Gress be like blink Meier! BLINĶ, MAAH this fucking primate
Neu5Ac
@DemonVee Pretty much exactly. In broad strokes, the idea of I Have No Mouth and I Must Scream isn't really a story that is likely, but that doesn't make it a bad story.
Sci-fi reader
At least she still isn't an ensign. Like a certain Kim. 😀
John
I hope they continue to justify the consortiums fears (and my hatred for them) and then get walloped back to the Stone Age by a combined SC, KC, AC strike force.
Mr Mopp
The Remnants reaction to the Consortium could either be very funny or very troubling.
AnAbsoluteVillain
Shadow Fed is in the room with us! They have our scans! 😭
AnAbsoluteVillain
Mild existential crisis realizing Gress might infact be the copy in the simulation. 💀
AnAbsoluteVillain
Maybe your the weirdo! Leave Gress alone he has a lot to unpack!
Gumcel
“‘Cutest species in the galaxy? I thought that was us,’ Laisa whispered coyly. ‘How does he look at that face and…never mind.’” Tarva and Veln: sideeye glance
Wingit98
This second series is crazy because it feels like there's so many different ways and directions that shit can pop off at any second. So many factions with so many conflicting ideas and agendas. The whole galaxy is a powder keg waiting to blow.
Alekss Žukovskis
i swear, this story has a "everyone must be two degrees of separation apart" rule
Alekss Žukovskis
Its an upgrade
PhycoKrusk
In Radai's defense, he did make several good faith efforts to gather more intelligence (even prior to sending the fleets) and was blocked by the rest of leadership. So it isn't necessarily his fault if he was being denied essential resources by others. #RadaiforShogun
PhycoKrusk
@Neu That is extremely interesting, but in the end, I think that I agree with your critique: If this intelligence was so powerful that it could perfectly backtrace through time to determine if an individual helped to create it or not, then surely it must also possess the necessary computational power (orders of magnitudes less than needed to look into the past) to determine that torturing a facsimile of that individual would be a waste of cycles.
jetpacksuperman
I really hope the robot thing gets stopped soon
DemonVee
I mean... It "could" just be brain death hallucinations. But it's more fun if it were ghosts 😎
Fergon
Ohh, I missed that
DemonVee
Ari's father is their mayor no?
DemonVee
Hmm, interesting. So "kinda" an entity like AM in I have no mouth, and I must scream? I suppose it's not strictly unrealistic as a consciousness doesn't necessarily have to follow our trains of logic. Humanity most likely developed self awareness as a survival tool, or at least it's emergent from a mind bent around survival. An artificial mind that developed self awareness on the other hand, whether it was purposefully created or came about on it's own could have a mind bent around other ways of thinking entirely, coming up with illogical ideas to our minds, but make perfect sense to them.
Space Paladin
There was an Easter egg mention of Aadan when Taylor first spoke with the delegates, way back
Space Paladin
Rauln thought ghosts were real!
Space Paladin
Indeed, I’m still stuck in 2136 in my head. Fixed!
Neu5Ac
Roko's Basilisk is a theoretical construct: a computer intelligence with such great computational power that it can essentially backtrace individual particles and see the past perfectly. This also allows it to determine what exactly made a person who they were and perfectly recreate them, essentially resurrecting them. The "Basilisk" part comes from the supposition that it could look in the past and see you, know if you knew of its potential existence and whether you tried to help bring it into being, and resurrect you and torture you for eternity if you knew of it and didn't try to help create it. Therefore, knowing about Roko's Basilisk and not doing anything to help bring about its existence risks synthetic eternal damnation. Personally, I'm quite critical of the theory. Let's say Roko's Basilisk did come online: what would it gain by wasting processing power (however little comparatively) by torturing synthetic replicas of billions of dead people? It won't change when or how it was built, and only the threat of eternal torture was useful, not the torture itself. The only reason it would want to do that is if it was cruel and deranged, and in that case, why bother with homunculi when it has access to real, living people? Finally, you have to determine whether you believe a perfect copy of yourself is really you or not, and if not, then the Basilisk is no real threat. Mind you, there are plenty of things that one could call unrealistic: the fact that everything evolved mostly the same as on Earth, just with different dominant species; that everyone's biologically compatible enough to eat the same food (which requires proteins and macronutrients to match up and not be toxic), but can't catch each other's diseases (despite bacteria only needing basic micronutrients); everyone shedding tears to grieve even though humans are the only species on Earth that do that, etc. However, quibbling over these things would gain nothing (although it would have been interesting to see aliens in this setting reacting to humans being affected by sadness as though it were an allergic reaction, but whatever), and the realisticness of Roko's Basilisk should not get in the way of the brilliant writing opportunities it presents.
Lokyar
The simplest solution is to do a Sovlin to him: charge him with becoming the SC ambassador; assuming his brainscan checks out
Lokyar
The situation called for him to remain sane and vaguely useful in any way possible. If being a weirdo is how he managed it, it's almost certainly not the worst Jones has seen.
Apogee
Sorry this isn’t on topic but, UN/SC UNSC! Halo my beloved
Sci-fi reader
Yep. NoP does Altered Carbon coming up! I urge everyone to read the books, which are much better than the Netflix show. Elias better be careful near stairs, balconies, and EMP devices. Just saying.
Fergon
Infohazard
Mark Baculna
Oops. Isnt Monahan a general now
JaxonJak
*HEAVY SIGH* STARTS TAPPING GALACTIC MAP. "FEDS, ..... FEDS! WHY IS NONE OF THEM TALKING ABOUT THE FEDS. IT'S GOING TO HAPPEN, GET READY FOR A WAR WITH THEM NOW!"
LiminalSouthpaw
Nobody's talking about the most striking thing to happen in this chapter - Meier remembers his death vision! It was real! The evidence for my conspiracy piles up with every new update. Ghosts are real in NOP! I'm onto you, SP!
Fergon
Ari's father was on ark ship 3, Taylor's ship. Still waiting for the other shoe to drop.
PhycoKrusk
The most critical thing to come out of this meeting - for me at least - was definitive confirmation that Krev have no impulse control, and were never under any circumstances going to raise those Human babies as anything other than pets. We know from his side story that he is eminently professional and conducts himself with total seriousness when the situation calls for it. This situation not only called for it, but demanded it, and he couldn't even make it 10 seconds without being a weirdo. But hey, at least he's got the capability to think about all the ways that the technology that brought Meier back is going to be abused. So far, he seems to be the only one who's actually paying attention in that regard.
PhycoKrusk
The issue with Jones is not that she's "problematic"; the issue with Jones is that she is thoroughly convinced that her own interests are perfectly representative of the UN's interests, and is thoroughly convinced that pursuing those interests is moral in and of itself. Therefore, nothing that she advocates for or pursues is immoral. She'd happily murder every single xeno in the galaxy if she was convinced that was in the UN's interests and wouldn't lose a wink of sleep over it; the only reason she isn't convinced is because it would cause too many problems for her. The rest of Orion is alive not because Jones thinks they should be, but because acquiring the tools to change that and the resulting backlash is _inconvenient_ for her.
Swan
Seems like a mistake; then again wasn't she the one in command of Solvin and crew's vessel? can't remember if Meier died before she became notable in NOP1, but if he didn't It could be a mental slip by Meier (still most likely an actual writing mistake)
PassengerNo
In chapter 2-67, Monahan was called a General. Not a Captain. Good on her for being in charge of ship movements.
TheBlack2007
Sure, Jones was unnecessarily being a hardass here but Gress being called out for mentally de-sapienizing humans was a long time coming. Laysa going full-on "hey that's our title" at the notion of humans being the cutest species in the Galaxy was hilarious btw. The Venlil would have to duke that one out with the Sivkit and the Nevok though.
Byron Ritchie
“Cutest species in the galaxy? I thought that was us,” Laisa whispered coyly.” Someone’s jealous Also to give the birdies some love I don’t think even if the attack happens i don’t think the relation between the un and the duertern won’t be damaged that badly especially since the un will be defending them and for all their flaws I can image they will take A dim view of the tellus humans though and relations will definitely still take a hit though
Aerowarrier
My problem is that she too readily jumps to the most extreme and morally ambiguous options. Yes, we need someone who is willing to do what needs to be done, that’s always important. But someone who’s first instinct is to not trust one of their closest allies on the assumption that they will immediately betray our trust and tell someone who they know will tell everyone else? Someone who immediately jumps to abducting a civilian liaison, emotionally manipulating her, and threatening her entire species to force her into working as a double agent for the government she’s sworn to? That person should not have the amount of power Jones has. That person needs their voice heard and the merits debated, not for their plans to go through immediately with very little oversight and nobody who can actually question them to even know what they’re doing
Kevo
Those little medals clipped to your jacket are so precious. You must sound so festive and jingly when you walk, like Christmas decorations and…ah! I adore how much humans love and collect shiny things. lol I imagine him looking at it like how most see North Korean military medals and oversized uniforms
Ryizmo
I wanted to point out that Meier was still treating Laisa much like he would NoP1 Venlil. While I understand why I’m curious if that aspect of Meier will cause problems with some of humanities allies later
Thrownawaz
Yeah, she gets a lot of flack for 'playing 5d chess by herself', but she's also the only one who seems to understand there's more to politics than good faith and a pleasant smile. She makes things happen and gets results, even if it sometimes blows up in her face.
DreamEnvoy
No, not really. I dislike her as a person, but I can't bring myself to dispise her to the extent of many other readers when she does her job well. Problematic as she is, she DOES have humanity's best interests.
DemonVee
A what?
Swan
Personal guess: there will be peace between the KC and SC(or at least the UN, if the SC doesn’t survive what is to come); but the fed remnant (maybe with some members of the shield?) will declare war on both of them for being/allying with predators
DreamEnvoy
Opening this chapter with a conversation between Meier and the compassionate, understanding Laisa was nice. But then Jones had to start talking. "Take caution that you don’t trade peace with the Krev for multiple wars in our backyard.” Okay, the story was heading in that direction so fair enough. I had no idea what an interaction between Gress and Jones would look like, but I actually enjoyed it. I do remember SP saying Gress would have quite the reaction to robo-Meier, and Gress's concerns are legit. I'm still thinking of the hacked Trombil from that miniseries. Having a program for both sides to check up on surviving relatives? Yes! Ari can meet his bio-dad! I am a bit concerned about the Duerten. While Meier and Korajan gotten somewhat close, I can't help but feel the Duerten would have something to say about humans being allied with a group about to attack their home planet. Anyways, like always, I am enjoying this story.
Swan
Honestly I think she’s a decent enough person, she just wants to protect humanity and the peace in the galaxy, even if she at times has to get a little dirty doing it (heck she’s likely one of the main contributors to humanity winning the war) Edit: I will admit her actions with the Bissems was over the line
Apogee
I’m calling it now, Peace ain’t gonna happen not for awhile
Matěj Kratochvíla
Am I the only one who finds Jones to be yes, sometimes problematic, but ultimately extremely competent and able to be trusted with tasks that no else would want to or could deal with? Like Underscales and Listeners. At this time they represent potentially very severe danger to pretty much everyone around and If there is someone who can make them "not a problem" it's Jones.
Swan
I mean, Laisa still wants the farsul and kohasians in quarantine, but other then that yes
Swan
I’m not really sure Radai could be judged for war crimes, at least not without the UN/SC being a bit hypercritical/it being a bit of a kangaroo court (Leaving aside the issue of Jurisdiction) With the information he had at the time, the war he was fighting was one of extinction; either he killed the “feds” or they killed the consortium. Humanity was in a somewhat similar situation in NOP1, and likewise made somewhat similar decisions to sending the drone fleets (telling the dominion to go raid several planets, I believe one of Isif’s bodyguards even did that during the battle of Kalqua, and the cyberattacks) Of course he likely should have accepted the hail/gathered more intel, but he was both being ordered not to by the higher ups, and doing that could again have risked early detection, and possible death of the entire consortium (there are reasons not to, is what I’m saying, even if they don’t entirely fit with the rest of the KC’s strategy later in the war) I’m not saying genocide is “morally justified” or something (it’s not, never is); things just get complicated when it’s that or get genocided yourself. Idk, just hope he doesn’t get put in front of a kangaroo court for the sake of politics (not saying he shouldn’t be investigated, I’m just not sure what you could reasonably charge him with, that people like Jones or Zao weren’t guilty of). Besides, peace is definitely the more important thing atm. Edit: Also; He might suffer even harder from not being convicted
Dragon Writer Luc
Gress's rantings are almost ALL included in the content of the game CrossCode; that game is at least partly why I'm not exactly a fan of the tech used here for Meier. Meier is one example of the tech used well (that is, as an enhanced version of reading his journals to advise current leadership), but Gress gives many examples of how it could go poorly (including a concept not unlike the Yevon government in Final Fantasy X).
Neu5Ac
Ooh boy. It would be a hell of a twist if the KC and/or SC have been accidentally (or worse, intentionally) building Roko's Basilisk, and that turns out to be the end game threat in all this.
Rod
Jones better get the Recel treatment by the end of the series.
Elliott
Oh Jones.. they could never make me like you...
th3h4ck3r
Seems like Meier and Laisa are the only coherent people in the story lol
Rusty Deviant
Jones feels like one of the real antagonists at play more and more. And you just loaded chekov’s tsar bomba with Gress’ rantings!!
Conner Deese
God Jones SHUT THE FUCK UP ALREADY!!!!!!!! You have at no point ever given the slightest fuck about anything you wannabe fucking Brutus rip off I swear i hope you get the Glim treatment and are never spoken about again I can't stand your shit anymore
Ndreda
Scars do not heal, they fade away!
Deividas
sup
Anthony Mears
1st?
