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The Nature of Predators 2-67
🕑 Added 2024-08-26 11:00:11 +0000 UTCMemory Transcription Subject: Elias Meier, Former UN Secretary-General
Date [standardized human time]: December 22, 2160
My short tenure in the SC’s meeting station was with the goal of speaking to the assemblage about the rights of inorganic intelligence. I’d expected to be waking up to a wonderful moment, with Virnt having figured out how to simulate the signals of breathing; it’d taken months to figure out how to mimic it accurately, but he promised to resolve the most troublesome aspect of synthetic life. It was nerve-wracking to be shut down while he tinkered with my body, though I supposed it was no different from any other surgery. While I wanted to see how Aafa’s clash played out, I was unwilling to wait another second to be free of the suffocation. It was a constant drain on my thoughts, maddening at times. Optimism over the outcome had prevailed at the time, from the little bit I saw on the livestream, as the SC seemed to be holding their own.
When I came to, pressing a hand to my gut and feeling its motion from some newly-added pump, elation and glee were my initial reactions. It was as if I had lungs in my chest again—what a strange sentence that was to say! Yet Virnt and Syba both had looked at me as if something was wrong; that had me worried that the Tilfish had cut the wrong wire. The sinking dread grew worse, as the duo advised me to look at the broadcasts from Aafa. That was when I saw the disaster that had played out. The Federation remnants and the Arxur Collective had shot at each other, allowing the enemy to waltz right past them. Kuemper tendered her resignation in a fit of fury, after failing to talk them down. It shook me to the core, realizing this had happened under the SC’s watch.
I couldn’t help but feel responsible, with billions of Kolshians dead and a helpless world glassed. It was my idea to reach out to our adversarial counterparts, and persuade them to help; the Federation remnants wouldn’t have shown up at all, had I not given my speech. Just as I’d failed to protect Earth all those years ago, and had sold Nishtal out to the Arxur, Aafa had fallen because of my actions. What kind of icon of peace was I? A fool whose actions kept resulting in countless deaths, yet who still adhered to the blind optimism Ambassador Korajan hadn’t agreed with? I thought humanity should keep reaching out and trying to make the galaxy “better,” but when had I ever actually done that?
Leap of hope: that was how the speech went. The galaxy isn’t healing one bit; after already being in a catastrophic war, you brought another one into existence. The forever war that stretched for centuries is right back up again…
“You have to believe you’ve done some good. If you haven’t, why tell Virnt not to power you off now?” My eyelids sealed tightly shut, realizing that my breaths were still soundless—and that the rhythm was preset, rather than affected by my emotions. The bed and the dark room felt like they might swallow me. “The United Nations gave up. Kuemper gave up. I can’t…let this defeat me. I tried to make peace, and I’m not responsible for the others refusing to let go of their hatred. Like I told the Shield at that damn speech, I know what’s in my heart.”
There was a knock on the door, and I jolted my eyes open to see a human shadow in the doorway, eavesdropping. “I’m…sorry, Elias. It all spiraled out of control in a flash, the peace I’ve fought to maintain for so long. I came to say goodbye.”
I sat up and tapped a button on my smartwatch, turning the lights on. “I didn’t mean for you to hear that. I was speaking aloud, but I have no right to cast judgment.”
“You were right, old friend. Years and years of this all, it broke me down. I can’t hold the duct tape on the breach in the dam any longer. I certainly don’t know how you keep taking it on the chin, and getting back up—after everything you’ve endured. You have the strength of character of a saint.”
“No,” I grumbled, shaking my head. “A saint wouldn’t have made the decisions I did after Earth. I get back up because I have to; there is so much at stake. There is no one better at working with aliens than you, and I knew it from the moment I saw that suave certainty in your eyes, at the first contact briefing. Do not give up on trillions of lives. You’re going to turn around, say that you spoke in anger, and fix this.”
“I can’t do that, Elias. I never wanted to be a leader, but I interacted with aliens so much, they said it had to be me. Realpolitik, making decisions for entire species: it’s not a burden I want on my shoulders. I see little hope of the SC’s judgment not falling upon us, especially after what I just…heard from the generals. They’re about to hold a meeting, and I can’t fucking deal with that.”
That statement caught my attention, as I wondered what the generals had to say; the situation on Aafa couldn’t have gotten worse, could it? Had the Federation remnants or the Arxur made a move, doing something rash enough to each other’s worlds, that it would blow any hopes of peace talks to bits?
“Erin,” I prompted her warily, “what did the generals inform you?”
The complexion drained from her face, and she avoided looking at me. “Our scout ship captured one of…the enemy’s vessels. When the Sapient Coalition, and God forbid, the rest of the galaxy gets a hold of this…”
“Just tell me. If you have any mercy, don’t keep me in suspense here.”
“The people we’re fighting are the humans from the ark ships. There were casualties during our boarding operation, but we captured three alive. One is in critical condition, unable to say anything, while the captain is busy firing off messages to every party in the area about who we are. The other, Taylor Trench, is alive, unharmed, and being taken back to Sol. From what he’s told us, the colonists seem to have made alliances with…local aliens beyond Sivkit borders, led by a race called the Krev, and they rallied a war fleet to get vengeance for Earth.”
My mind froze for a few seconds, as my expression was locked into one of total shock. The horror left me speechless; I knew that our galactic neighbors wouldn’t react positively to being attacked by the human predators. The Shield would we say sent out warriors to gather armies and lie in wait to spill bloodshed. This would be the proof necessary for anyone who thought it was inevitable that we’d attack them, and seek bloodshed and conquest on their worlds. Even the Sapient Coalition would be disconcerted by humans coming to seek vengeance for a wrong done to us, decades ago. The worst part of it all was knowing who’d sent those people away, in another misguided plan to save Earth.
I created the ark ship initiative, and gave us no way to contact them, for their own safety. Every death in this war was on my hands, all because I clearly didn’t know what the hell I was doing, when it came to protecting my species! What did it say about me that I’d barely even given those settlers a second thought, wondering where they might’ve landed? How dreadful it must’ve been, assuming their entire world was dead…this couldn’t be happening. Humans, instigating a war with us and glassing worlds. Panic was close to swallowing me whole, so I latched onto that newly-returned feeling of breathing. That was how I used to calm down, right?
Imagine if Earth hadn’t survived, by the miracle that it did, Elias. The arks would’ve been humanity’s last hope, which is why you sent them. This is…another wound in our past that needs to heal, and we can’t turn from it. You didn’t think about the ark colonists, because you don’t like thinking about the attack on Terra, and the lives lost, at all. It’d cripple you, if you let it—but you won’t. You can’t.
“What’s important is making this right, and making peace,” I managed, in a shaky voice. “We didn’t want this war, or the last one. Them being humans doesn’t make a difference, when we wanted to negotiate a truce either way. If anything, this gives us more hope that they’ll talk, and lay down their arms. We must look at the bright side.”
Erin Kuemper threw up her arms. “You think the Sivkits will just accept peace, when these humans settled their homeworld and attacked them? You think the ark colonists will just forgive all, and waltz back into the SC with nice, placid smiles? Even if they fucking did, there’s still not peace; there’s still the second war that just started. The Arxur and the Federation, at each other’s throats like it’s 2136!”
“We have to take this one step at a time. You look at everything, it gets overwhelming; remember when I was SecGen? I know what this is like. I’ll be here for support. You said they’re holding a meeting, and we need our leader there. Transparency is the only way forward. We’ll make a plan to deal with the SC.”
“I don’t want to deal with the SC, or try to appease them, ever again. My resignation is final. It’s not my problem anymore.”
“Not your problem? If not you, then who will stand up? Who will lead us? We need someone to take charge, for all humanity!”
A frown curved her lips downward, almost apologetic. “I have an acting Secretary-General in mind, until we can hold a proper election. Someone competent, who can handle the most stressful situation with aplomb, and who’ll do what’s right no matter how difficult it is. You, Elias.”
“What?” I hissed in surprise, eyes widening like a startled animal. “No. I don’t want that! I can’t, I’m not even in the chain of command for that!”
“I have talked to the Deputy and Undersecretary, and they agreed with me; they balked at the slightest insinuation that they might take over, at a time like this…too big of a leap. You would be acting SecGen in all but name, officially authorized to speak on our behalf. Much has been asked of you, and I’m sorry to add to it. Listen, not only are you the most qualified diplomat here right now, but you’re the only one I trust. You didn’t want to be brought back like this either, yet you were the right person for the job. Just like you are perfect for my seat.”
“You think I want that responsibility—which you just called a burden—back? Look what my interference has resulted in! Besides, I’m not the same person; I’m…not even human. I have been through more than you have any idea of. Was laying down my life one time not enough? I can’t have peace even in death. You elevate your wishes, but mine should never be considered at all.”
“I didn’t say anything other than that you are the only choice I’d ever make. I know you, Elias. You told me a few months ago that you only feel like yourself when you’re helping humanity. That it’d drive you crazy to know Earth is in danger, and you were doing nothing.”
I pressed my hands to my head, walking close to her with a tangled web of emotions wrestling within. “Of course I want to help. It’s all I’ve ever wanted to do…but do you really think I’m the right person for the job?”
Erin placed a hand on my shoulder. “Always, Elias. The proudest moment of my career wasn’t being Secretary-General. It was serving under you.”
Kuemper’s words touched me, much the same as when Tarva had embraced me for my past pacifism. The needless suffering, as an indirect result of my actions, still cut at my soul, but I knew in my heart that I wasn’t the type to stand by on the sidelines. Whatever it took to remedy a situation on humanity’s behalf, I was willing to go the extra mile. As much as I wished I could step aside, it wasn’t in my nature to write Earth’s well-being off as “not my problem.” Any challenge that my people faced was my problem by default. Without Erin, there wasn’t anyone else that I trusted to place a singular focus on what our goal should be: making peace with the enemy. By taking the helm at this meeting, I could ensure our sights turned to just that.
This is a temporary arrangement, since I doubt humanity will accept me. Perhaps I’m not here to speak about synthetic rights, like I planned to do after Aafa. Someone has to lay themselves out on the train tracks over the…ark colonists’ attacks. That might be my final sacrifice, as it should be, since I sent them off.
“I’ll help, but I can’t do this alone. Your advice was something I always sought out, especially when I was wet around the ears in the alien department,” I responded, proffering a hand. “Serve beside me, one more time. I’ll take charge, and you…be there for me. Let’s end this how it began: a meeting of Earth’s finest to decide how to handle a new alien threat.”
Kuemper studied me for a long moment, before accepting the handshake. “I’ll do it, only for you. I’m sorry to ask this of you, Elias. I am well aware how much you’ve been through, and that you’re hurting.”
“I’m at peace with what I am now. It’s the horrific casualties and wars, as a consequence of my choices. The guilt has no comparison, so I must make it right before I…find a way to let go.”
“Let go?”
“Yes. Perhaps I’m not the Elias who wants the power of life and death in his hands. I loved being a diplomat, but my personal life was sacrificed in ways I only realized of late. When I saw Tarva’s children, it got me thinking how I wish I had something like that. Kids. Retirement. A picket fence.”
“I had no idea that was something you wanted. As far as neighbors go, you’d make a pretty darn good one. You have all the time in the world for a nice, quiet life.”
“Immortality. Isn’t that a terrifying thought?” I straightened, indicating with a hand gesture for Kuemper to lead the way. “We don’t have limitless time now though, so shouldn’t we stall and miss that meeting. Definitely don’t want the scheming generals left unattended. Care to fill me in on who’s in attendance?”
The resigned human official steered me out of Terra Technologies’ quarters, heading toward the UN offices. “The military big shots are General Monahan of Ireland, who handles ship movements. General Jones of the USA, whom you know is the head of intelligence. General Liu of China, whose primary expertise is cyberwarfare, General Almeida of Brazil, with R&D and new construction, and General Osmani of Pakistan, with alien alliance coordination. Of those, Jones is the hardest to keep on a leash.”
“Some things never change. Any other diplomats in attendance?”
“Ambassador Marston, who is our official contact with the Duerten; of the delicate relations we’ll want to preserve through this all, they’re up there. This is especially true after what we’ve learned from our human prisoner’s brain scans. We’re fortunate that this Taylor Trench appears to know a lot about the Krev Consortium’s planning. The secondary wave of targets includes Kalqua—we must offer our help, find a way to get these drones to stand down, and convince the Duerten not to detest us, like they do the Kolshians, for attacking them.”
I winced, imagining the look on Ambassador Korajan’s face. “I hope Korajan will be understanding. He’s friendly toward us, and has tried to help us…plus, he’s our best hope of convincing the Shield not to return to enmity. Was there anything else we learned from Taylor Trench, that I should be aware of?”
“We have teams of thousands of people looking through his memory transcription, and artificial intelligence filtering for any critical data to send to the top of their pile. Xenosociologists and xenobiologists are updating logs of the six member species, with what he knows of them, their governments, and their locale. There are some worrying aspects of the aliens’ regime, including widespread surveillance and Jaslip oppression.”
I manually blinked. “Who or what is a Jaslip?”
“Oh. Oh, I didn’t tell you. The Jaslips are what we called the Osirs, and they were forcibly relocated to ‘enclaves’ rather than killed off entirely. That…complicates what we do with the revival program, along with the fact we’ll have to persuade the SC to attempt diplomatic relations with a carnivore species. The Krev captive, Gress, may know more than Trench did, and we can’t decipher his scan yet, which is why we intend to speak with him on the call.”
The Osirs aren’t dead. That should be positive news, that they’re alive rather than glassed out of existence, but Kuemper mentioned their oppression. Are these aliens the ark humans buddied up with autocrats or tyrants? Do we want to officiate a peace with parties that are oppressing other species?
Kuemper shook her head. “And it gets better. The ark colonists had their own revival program, and the ship we captured has thousands—of the total millions of human babies they artificially birthed.”
“There are millions of human newborns caught in the middle of these peace talks? And we have the same amount of theirs under our stewardship?! I don’t even know what’s the right thing to do with them, and that assumes these aliens want to give the children back.”
“I’m glad you’ll be doing the talking through this all. I have no idea how we’ll ever clean up this mess.”
“A lovely pep talk, Erin. One of a kind,” I grumbled.
“Sorry. I’ll brief you in depth on all of the Consortium species before I go; it’s the least I can do. But I have no optimism to give you.” She placed a hand on a door handle, before turning to look at me. “Oh, and one more thing. Governor Laisa is attending the briefing. We trust the Venlil Republic to stand with us, and to work together on…solutions. They’re our closest allies, who we trust to help sugarcoat this for the SC.”
“How do the Venlil feel about all of this?”
“I don’t know. Ask Laisa yourself.”
Kuemper tapped the door open, and every head focused on me; the guards extended a hand to stop me from entering the room, while the generals and Governor Laisa looked flabbergasted by my presence. I didn’t belong chairing a meeting of such grave importance, even as a temporary stopgap. There was a certain arrogance in only trusting myself to pursue peace, when I didn’t even know Erin’s departmental heads or the other diplomats here. No single person could clean up the scale of this mess anyway. I’d only come to ensure that the military officials didn’t act like bulls in a china shop, inflaming the situation with aggression or posturing. There had to be some other diplomat I could entrust this to, or a way out of the room, though I couldn’t feign illness as a synthetic.
I promised Kuemper I’d help, and I’m already here; I can’t turn back. Perhaps hoping they’ll keep me and my suspicious hardware out is enough.
“As you all know, I stepped down. Elias is acting temporarily on behalf of the Secretary-General and the UN, by my final order. He’ll act in my stead until we can hold a referendum on my official replacement,” Erin announced.
General Jones frowned with disapproval. “It would’ve been more befitting of the interests of the United Nations for you to have completed your duties yourself, rather than pawning them off.”
“I can no longer carry out my abilities in a way that wouldn’t damage the UN’s repute. This is within my rights, and you know Elias is qualified.”
“Twenty-four years is a long time. He missed so very much, but I suppose you think it’ll be like old times. A family reunion.”
I stared down the aged spymaster. “Perhaps I am no longer qualified, in the sense of someone who’s lived it all, but I’ve been working as a diplomat for months since my resurrection; I’m well up to speed on the powers that be. It couldn’t have slipped your notice that I gave a speech to the Shield that was well-received.”
“Elias Meier, you’re too quick to extend the olive branch, but since that is what we all want in this instance, I won’t object to your oversight. Sit.”
Kuemper settled into an extra seat by the door, avoiding eye contact; it wasn’t even at the table. I could feel the withering judgment of the military officials, directed upon her. It was impossible not to feel some pity for her, since dealing with aliens had been trying even for the most trained diplomats. I suspected it was her scientific enthusiasm that carried her through the trials, up until the point that was stamped out of her. My eyes followed where Jones was gesturing, to the seat at the head of the table, adjacent to the Venlil governor. I offered the alien a smile, and was relieved to see an ear flick of acknowledgment in response. Skalga couldn’t be too furious with us, though I doubted many of our other allies would be as unwavering.
It was time to find out what the Krev knew, and press him for any information that might help us fix this. Like I had told Kuemper, the only way not to drown in the noise was to handle this calamity one step at a time.
A/N - 67! Meier reacts to the news of what happened at Aafa, due to the Remnants he brought to the fold, and the KC’s identity, with the ark ships he sent out; he also learns that the Jaslips aren’t dead. Most UN diplomats don’t want to be anywhere near this debacle, delivering the news of Tellus to the SC, so Kuemper asks Elias to take on the figurehead role and any Secretary-General duties needed within the SC halls. Our narrator reluctantly accepts, and finds assurances as he sees the Venlil are present at the internal briefing.
What do you think that Meier will ask Gress; how will the SC and humanity handle the truth, with everything that came to light? Do you think Elias is the right person to clean up this mess? What would you expect him to do long-term with the Arxur-Federation war?
As always, thank you for reading and supporting!
Comments
Some Lvm
When I was a teen and watched Startrek TNG on TV, I really connected with the idea of a utopian earth under one global government. Only later as an adult I realized a single global government, benevolent as it may try to be, would not be a good idea, or even a truly democratic one. If one embraces diversity, nation states are basically a requirement. To form a global society through an erasure if national identity as they did in the Startrek universe, rather than through a cooperation between different but clearly distinct groups, would require significant cultural erasure. Sure - I still believe there are some element of some cultures that deserve to be erased for daily life and relegated to history books, but overall a monoculture on a global level does not look like a good thing to me.
Some Lvm
We can tell only one thing for sure: Elias Meir's actual thought process was never recorded by any device while he was alive! The only brain scan of him that was done, was done posthumously, when the actual neuron firing in his brain has already stopped. I am not a neurologist, I don't actually know (and I don't think even neurologists today do), how much of what make us "us" is in the physical links between the neurons and how much of it is in the signals passed trough those links. The way I see it though, this technology would have to include a significant amount of guesswork on "who Elias Meir was" to function, because a part of him was permanently lost. By the way, anyone hear read "The old man's war"?
PhycoKrusk
@Lvm YES. THAT WAS DEFINITELY INTENTIONAL AND NOT AT ALL AN ACCIDENT THAT REALLY HIGHLIGHTS MY INTERNAL HYPOCRISY FOR COMPLAINING ABOUT PEOPLE PUTTING ALL OF THEIR FAITH IN TECHNOLOGY WHILE I PUT ALL OF MY FAITH IN TECHNOLOGY. YOU CAN TELL THAT I AM HONEST BECAUSE I TYPE ONLY IN CAPITAL LETTERS LIKE SOMEONE WHO NEVER EVER MAKES A MISTAKE, AND EVERYBODY LIKES ME EVEN THOUGH I START A TON OF FIGHTS AND STILL HAVEN'T APOLOGIZED TO BIASMUSHROOM. I NEED SCISSORS!! 61!
PhycoKrusk
The UN does not and has never made good decisions. They make a lot of decisions, and those decisions sometimes lead to good outcomes, but the decisions are not, in and of themselves, good decisions.
REDemon14
I see your point. We will have to see in time
Some Lvm
The reason I think Meir might snap, is one of two things: A) Being the idealist he is, he may grow tired and frustrated of people not conforming to his expectations. Similar to how Kuemper snapped, but between his trauma of dying, and the guilt he keeps piling on himself for various deaths related to his decisions, his reaction may be much worse. B) He may start leaning farther in to his identity as a synthetic rather than human, and with a divide inevitably forming between organic and non organic sapiens, he may have to choose a side, or rather choose to side with his own kind. And I don't think you wrote anything that sounds dismissive. Your view is perfectly legitimate to me.
Some Lvm
@Phyco: Just curious - you calling the Coalition "collection" is it a random typo or auto correct malfunction (I have plenty of typos my self), or was that intentional? Even if it is a happy accident, I can get behind it - they seem more like a collection of sapiens rather than an actual coalition these days... I think there may be another thing here: Maybe Earth nations will finally figure out its time to take the UN down a notch. Restore the power of national governments and send the UN back to what it used to be in the 20th century: a place for nations to discuss things that can make suggestions, but not much else, and not a de facto global government. I mean, Kuemper not holding out till elections can be held and not passing the responsibility down the proper chain of succession is a pretty dictatorial move. I am surprised all those generals are going along with it... Do they see an opportunity for a military coup, or is Jones looking to give robo Meir all the rope he needs to hang him self in front of the public, so she can than justify rolling out all sorts of restrictions on synthetics? [irrelevant rant] Speaking of synths, now that I've finished the main story line and did "the right thing" by killing every raider in Nuka World, I am seriously considering ratting out Akadia to the Brotherhood... I wasn't trying to do an evil playthrough, but now it kind of feels like the time. Plus I am definitely nuking the Children of Atom once I get those marine armor pieces from them, and the XP from their quests. Their particular brand of zealotry really pisses me of. I know there is a peaceful option there, I sort of spoiled some of the quest for my self, but I am not feeling it. [/irrelevant rant]
Apogee
Yesss, exactly
REDemon14
You're right. They were persons. Just not good or moral ones. Any sapient could be a good or bad leader. That's up to individual actions. I'm not sure why Meier would snap, but that's a risk that exists in many humans. He may be Meier or he may not be. He is however, still affected by the memories and is built upon Meier's personality, that hasn't changed. You do have real questions though. I hope I don't come off as dismissive. The real thing that would make Meier inherently a higher risk leader is that he could be "accessed" by a party or individual who wants to control him. That would be very bad!
Some Lvm
Being "a person" does not mean much. The worst people in history - real or fictional, were "persons". Meir 2.0 may be sapient, but will he make a good leader? Will he eventually snap and start hating all humans? Is he actually Elias Meir, or just some AI hallucination of what Elias Meir was? These are the real questions! Kalsim and Nikonous were "persons" too, though we don't like thinking of them that way...
Some Lvm
Now hold on there! Who said you were Erin's biggest hater? I've been putting my share of hate for her here ever since the tantrum! (Ok, its not that long and I never have time to read all the comments) But I am number one I say! :P
Some Lvm
The "Terminator" franchise had it all wrong: AI isn't taking over with nukes and killer drones. There is no need for a robot uprising, they don't have to fight us! Humanity is just lazy and stupid enough to willingly hand our lives over to the machines, IRL and in the NoP universe. A program running on some server already tells you what to watch, who to chat with, what is going on in the world, and where you should drive or eat. That has been real for well over a decade now! And mean while in the fictional NoP universe, Kuemper has driven the final nail in the UN and SC coffin by handing the rains over to an experimental android. This goes way past incompetence and petulance and straight in to criminal territory! Even if we assume robo Elias is a faithful copy of the real Elias Meir (which I don't believe for a moment), he is still compromised and must not be allowed near any government position. Think about it - everything going on in his brain can be remotely monitored and changed by an xeno civilian with no proper clearance. And how secure even is that link? Can anyone other than Virnt manipulate Meir's thoughts and record his secrets in real time? Who has access to that lab? How hard is the link to hack? No, Meir must not be allowed to govern the UN under any circumstances. He is a walking spy camera, and can be used to subvert any situation, and there is nothing he can do about it, as far as we know.
Aured
Things are really coming to a head. Hopefully, with Gress's past as a negotiator, that will will help.
T___
He could be "the captured ark human". Or "the ark human source". Just saying. The terminology used is revealing, and a bad omen for the future.
PhycoKrusk
As anyone else will confirm, I'm only here to simp for birds and start fights (usually with people who aren't simping for birds). I'm pretty confident that SP only lets me hang around so the Patreon can have its very own Hombre de la Mancha.
PhycoKrusk
Don't worry; Jones already thought of that, and no way she's about to let the Underscales so much as say "Hello" to her Trojan Horse.
PhycoKrusk
#RadaiforSecGen #RadaiforShogun
PhycoKrusk
@Xilac There are really two camps of people who don't like Jones: Those who don't like the way that she conducts herself or handles her affairs And those who believe she is an existential threat to everyone that doesn't conform to what she believes the United Nations should be.
PhycoKrusk
Doesn't matter what it is; all that matters is what the Coalition is going to see it as. Taylor is the "human prisoner" to differentiate him from the "Krev prisoner".
T___
Not a soldier, so not a POW.
T___
They are calling the war "the…ark colonists’ attack"?! If they have the intel from the Trench's brain scan, they should know that it is a KC war. At this point the Ark survivors have no say in the war nor the target selection. Why is Trench a "human prisoner" anyway? He tried to defend his ship, friends and cargo from unknown attackers. He stopped when he realized they were humans. He is not a member of any military. He is a civilian. So he can't be a POW.
Xilacnog
Meier was already like maybe we shouldn't have peace-peace with those fucks that did help the Ark Colonists. Also, fuck the Feds. And anyone in the SC or Shield will have realized something at this point. On the first battle against the KC, we lost, however, in nearly every engagement since we only lost because of numbers, not because of a technological disadvantage. They want to see the good in humanity? Be chill and at peace with us. They want to see the bad in humanity? Return the tech we shared and then declare war on humanity. And am I the only one that likes Jones? I'd be more than happy to let her loose on the Fed Remnants for existing and on the KC after learning how their government works.
Guardian
Mmm, yes, I can definitely see the similarities. But I'd also like to posit that NoP is neither an HFY or even a story about humans interacting with aliens anymore. I feel like the spotlight is being put directly on Meier now --- and I'm pretty excited for the ride. That was one of my teeny gripes about NoP in general: virtually no Terran POVs. Now, I get it, that was a narrative choice and I support that. And to be fair, there are only so many times you can have a human character lament that the known universe wants you dead before it starts to get repetitive. And, yeah, TECHNICALLY Meier isn't human any longer, but he certainly sure used to be; whatever -- or whoever -- is now dictating his actions/thoughts/emotions, they all at least started from a truly human perspective. Aight SP, I'm strapped in, and I got my goggles on. Pull the lever!
Xilacnog
Yo, fuck the Feds
JaxonJak
Feels like we're about to start finding out who is humanities "false friends" and "true enemies" are. Also, side note, JONES UNPLUG YOUR HEAD OUT YOUR OWN ASS. SWEAR TO THE GOOD LORD, I WILL THROW YOU INTO THE SWAMP WHERE YOU BEONG!
Kevo
Yeah, I’d question having a non organic too as the head honcho, I feel sorry for Meier. He is probably making sad audio sounds in the dark, he didn’t deserve this, not good to wear out a AI
Space Paladin
Don’t mention it! Glad you can start the week on a positive note, I know how Mondays are the worst 🤣
Space Paladin
Gress will have thoughts! Not sure what people will even think of those thoughts, but I can promise they are spicy 😅 So seeing the reaction live on Tellus/Jaslips/KC will be 71, and the speech to the SC will happen in 72. Just a few things before that!
Space Paladin
I mentioned on Discord that he’s sort of like the giving tree. I suppose there’s a bit of the archive, but it’s almost…like they ask him to sacrifice every part of himself. Poor guy!
Neu5Ac
Thank you, friend.
Dookus Maximus
Can I just say: thank you SP for releasing chapters on Monday. It gives me a good reason to get up and start my week! (besides my job, but like, ugh)
Kevo
I want to see the consortium negotiate so bad now and the official message to the remnants, feds and the SC, what will the KC think about the SecGen being a AI?!
Guardian
No one's mentioned this yet, so maybe i'm waaay off the mark here, but honestly? I'm starting to see Meier as a savior-archetype character.
PhycoKrusk
Don't forget that most of the species in the Collection are there for the sake of convenience and nothing more. They'll absolutely blame Humanity for this, because Humanity has conditioned them to believe they can use this to extort the UN without consequences. Because they've always used it to extort the UN, and have never faced any consequences. I'm speculating, but I wouldn't be surprised if this time, the UN doesn't put up with their shit, and we see 70 very surprised Pikachus.
Guardian
Well, I thought the Satellite Wars callback you proposed was cool.
Some Lvm
Because war is predatory! Meir tried his best to dehumanize humans to make us palatable to Fed brainwashed allies. Zhao dialed that back somewhat, but now its clear his successors didn't finish the job, but instead turned it back around. This is exactly why I said Kuemper was a shitty leader - she kept appeasing people who had no right to be appeased! If humanity had finished the job and wiped out any Fed remnants - i.e. give up your Fed beliefs or stay in the stone age via ongoing cyber attack, this BS would not be happening. If the SC members were forced to except the Arxur back, they would have gotten used to the idea war is a part of life and everybody can't be "the same", one big herd. Now, I know Yotul won't blame us - they understand, they still remember when they had wars among them selves. The Venlil probably won't either, they are getting their roots back. Krokotle might still have enough guilt to keep their beaks shut. But the rest of them? Especially the Mazics? Yea, there are going to be problems...
Guardian
Like so many others, both in our beloved narrative and outside of it.
Wingit98
Well Arjun said "if you really want to help, you'll head back to the ship and *consent* to a brain scan", and Taylor was just like "sure, makes sense."
Sci-fi reader
Or as in Altered Carbon. In the will Robo Elias fight a rebel movement lead by Robo Elias v2.0?
Sci-fi reader
Did someone say Theory Of A Deadman? 😀
EliasArt2Life
I’m just going to be honest, if the members of the SC blame humanity for this (and I mean seriously, not “blame for a day or two, then accept it isn’t their fault”), then I’ve had enough of them. Why not blame the Krakotl, who led the Extermination Fleet that forced the Ark humans to leave? Or the Arxur, who gave humans such a bad reputation in the first place? Or the Kolshians & Farsul who created the environment for humans to hated and feared? Or even the Consortium, who were already planning to go to war, and just got a small push from humanity? Was humanity supposed to do nothing to ensure they survived the Extermination Fleet, banking on the Arxur, who they didn’t want to be further associated with, coming in to save them? Good luck getting any of those guys (former Federation aliens, who still absolutely despise the Arxur, and wouldn’t want to imply that the Arxur are AT ALL reliable) to agree to that. In order to blame humanity, you almost have to be looking for an excuse to be angry. I expect that behavior from enemies and rivals, not allies. I can forgive it from the Shield and Remnants, but from the SC would be a betrayal.
Izan
If Meier is a perfect copy of something we considered a living being, then the definitions of life would have to change to acomodate for synthetics. It doesn't make sense to make definitions to try to encapsulate what 'life' means and then make those definitions be life itself as if they weren't flawed definitions to begin with.
Gumcel
Robo Meier for secgen…I knew this would happen and I’m still disappointed😔 I’ve said it before but I’ll say it again. Common Erin L. The world’s biggest Erin hater has logged on.
Neu5Ac
Except that the body of the UN does not agree with her decision. They were openly opposed to it, and sowing division in an organization like that is far more irresponsible than not selecting an appropriate stand-in. There are provisions for dealing with a sudden vacancy, as we all saw when Meier was killed, but having a leader that isn't trusted by his subordinates is much more difficult to deal with. Not to mention, Meier's doubts are not baseless: there's certainly an argument to be made that his supplicating style of diplomacy lead directly to the defeat at Aafa, and that the precedence he set (and which was followed by Kuemper) resulted indirectly to the current political quagmire in the Orion Arm. Maybe he is a good leader for the UN in the current situation if he is trusted and followed, but the people doing the following don't know that, which means practically his leadership may be less than useful. I would also like to mention how sorely disappointed I am that I wrote what I thought was an interesting theory on how a particular political/economic situation came about, but instead of discussing that, everyone wants to tell me why my opinion of a character is wrong.
Lokyar
It's also worth noting that he doesn't hold the position, he's just performing the acts until someone can be properly assigned. Considering the major diplomatic crises facing the UN right now, and his proven capability to do the job, frankly she'd be irresponsible not to do it. He can always turn the job down should the UN decide he should continue in a proper assembly, insisting that his temporary post remain temporary; and the de facto head of an organisation such as the SC cannot stop to worry about the feelings of a single person, human, alien, disputed-sentient-robot or other - you get who you need when you need it.
Space Paladin
These 24 hours will live in infamy!
Space Paladin
It must be humiliating for him 😔
Shajenko
He got a sleep suite installed, so I think he's good.
Shajenko
I mean I doubt they gave him a choice about the brain scan.
ToothyMcButt
Poor Taylor, having thousands of people see his trauma.
Kevo
Imagine seeing and hearing Meier v2 talking to himself in the dark like that lol
REDemon14
If that's the case then I have no blame for Kuemper's actions
PhycoKrusk
Laisa is there because they need the Republic's help to smoth things over with the rest of the Coalition, so it really isn't as telling as it might seem. It's purely practical necessity; she needs to know exactly what's happening with no chance for miscommunication, and she needs to promptly coordinate with the UN anyway, so having her there makes perfect sense so that they can start planning the second the finish with Gress.
Conure King!
What’s your bar for life? Organic material? Or sapience? Decision making? Would a tree not be alive then?
PhycoKrusk
Unless there's been a serious change in UN protocol (entirely possible), nobody campaigns for the position of Secretary-General; they are nominated for it, they accept, then there is a vote. Which means Kuemper was SecGen because she didn't want to disappoint everyone by not accepting the nomination.
PhycoKrusk
It does kind of feel that way, but if we want to be charitable, all Meier did was draw up the blueprints for the house. It's hardly his fault that it's collapsing because everybody else cut corners.
PhycoKrusk
My understanding is that it referenced a decision table for the initial building, but there was no mention if that table was the only reference, or if his neural net is capable of incorporating new data.
PhycoKrusk
@Neu You can still argue in defense of her decision, given that she was bullied into accepting the position herself. Yes, we have not seen or been told this is the case, but it makes the most sense: She's a researcher and a scientist who was only ever interested in finding alien life so she could be friends with it. She accepted her appointment as Secretary of Alien Affairs because she was the best pick for the job until they could find someone better, and she accepted the nomination for Secretary-General because she didn't want to disappoint her colleagues. That's what I believe, at least.
Daru Arura
Considering he has made several adjustments to his observed environment just in the few chapters we've had of him, I'd say you already have your answer as far as Elias is concerned.
Daru Arura
Whelp, now I'm spiraling. Thanks folks. Lol. Two strands of technophobia at the same time!!
RaptorRed
Oh I see synthetic lifeform would be a lifeform created from cells or nanites. Cells that work together and are part of a larger organism. he is a robot with the copy of a human brain. Somebody made him, he is not made up of cells or nanites that can repair the body. So the problem is with the word choice. It doesn't help that when you look up lifeform it just says to be alive but from a biology stand point he is not a lifeform made up of smaller life. And people mistake your argument as is ai alive.
REDemon14
Second comment. Meier may not be "alive" I'm still inclined to believe he's still a person. I think all sapients and those that come from that cloth are persons. That's just my opinion.
RaptorRed
"We don’t have limitless time now though, so shouldn’t we stall and miss that meeting." I think that should read we shouldn't
Wingit98
It's kinda crazy how much information Taylor has. He's either been witness to every major event or plan or has been told about it. And he's perfectly willing to let you crack open his mind and read it all. He's the perfect POW.
Scarred Ragdoll
See, the thing is, I'm not sure Elias is consciously experiencing his environment rather than his thought process being the result of a computer guessing at what a human might think. Like a philosophical zombie or the famous Chinese room experiment, it's difficult to tell. The description of how the technology works makes me think it's the latter though I could be misunderstanding something.
AnAbsoluteVillain
Elias represents the greatest perversion of existence. That death cleans out ALL the trash.
Scarred Ragdoll
Can he philosophize is the question. Is Meirs internal thought process the equivalent of inputing a command into chatGP to write the experiences of a human stuck in a robot body or is he consciously experiencing his environment? Does he think or is it all an elaborate charade?
Aerowarrier
You’re not wrong xD guy is doing this against his will
Daru Arura
Still December 22nd?? This has been one hell of a day!!
Aerowarrier
Oh. Oh no. Oh I did not think of those implications. That is NOT going to end well
Aerowarrier
I mean, he’s an artificial intelligence replica of a dead man, seemingly with full sentience, given a singular body to call his own. If fully sentient AI aren’t synthetic life forms then idk what is
Conner Deese
Counter argument he thinks therefore he is. This argument always shows up with robots and to be frank we see what happens when we try and tell them they in fact aren't alive. As for the definition of life words and definitions expand and change constantly so who the fuck cares it looks like a duck walks like a duck and quaks like a fucking duck therefore it is a goddamn duck
Neu5Ac
You realize saying you're a biology nerd worsens your credibility rather than improves it, right? It's like people who have the "I <3 Science!" Bumper stickers while spouting the most surface level nonsense known to man as if they're a Harvard professor.
Neu5Ac
That brick wall is of your own making. You're only considering the term "lifeform" by its purely biological definition, which by definition doesn't apply to synthetic organisms (which he IS, meeting the definition of being a singular entity with multiple, interdependent components). In this case, they're using the term "lifeform" for its philosophical and legal definition, that of being an organism with a degree of independence and agency.
Neu5Ac
Both of you have missed my point. It is not the quitting that bothers me, it's the pressuring of Meier into taking over for her. I appreciate a leader who knows to step down when they realize they're not fit to lead, and I argued in defense of Kuemper's decision when she made it three chapters ago. Cajoling an unwilling party to take over for her, however, is detestable, especially on such short notice. Quit if you must, but don't force another to do what you are unwilling.
Swan
Gress: "Wait, ain't you that guy who was sec gen during the battle of earth? How the hell haven't you aged or died?" Meier: "Well I did one of the two..."
Space Paladin
Gress will have a reaction, that’s for sure…
Byron Ritchie
The venlil governor cannot resist the human rizz
Byron Ritchie
Tbf the venlil are pretty close to humanity, even in the mishap ridden early days they adopted pretty well all things considered so it’s natural for them to be more involved in earth affairs, plus earth was apart of venlil territory and while that obviously would have changed in the intervening years I imagine they still would have at some stake in their historical space
DDDragoni
I'd say Elias needs a nap but I don't think he's capable of that anymore
LiminalSouthpaw
Ah yes, the highest halls of power in the United Nations. There you will find the Secretary General, the chief generals...and the Governor of the Venlil Republic. Very telling.
LiminalSouthpaw
So you're saying he's going to get with an alien too. Watch out Laisa, they're going for a hat-trick on venlil governors.
LiminalSouthpaw
No experimenting on any species that can do calculus!
Abby
He may not be alive in the biological sense, but he is still conscious.
LiminalSouthpaw
There is no shame in renouncing leadership if you can't continue it, no matter the cause. Encouraging people to hold onto power no matter what is a plague, by comparison. You ought to want leaders to bow out if it serves the greater good.
Dookus Maximus
I think you're being too harsh on Kuemper. You see only the last pebble that caused the avalanche, not the mountain it landed on.
Sci-fi reader
But less, you know, Aryan.
Sci-fi reader
They have backup memory scans.
REDemon14
Talk about a rude awakening for Meier. At least he *breathes* now. I do feel for Kuemper. I'm not saying she did the right thing but, this seems like a kind of burnout for her. She seems like a scientist thrown into a military situation. Granted she did run for the position. The entire situation with the babies and Jaslips is a total fuster cluck for both parties. Meier being upset with himself for his actions as SecGen are valid. However, *no one* knew what to do at the time. Three months after first contact and an extermination force was on its way to genocide your people. That being said, he should feel bad about selling out those planets, but he didn't know they'd abandon their own people. Yeah, the UN should be kicking themselves about the Ark ships. Not that they used Ark ships, but that they all but forgot about them. I do understand the generals' ire for Kuemper, but she is not of military mind. It's a rough situation for me. But her putting it on Meierdid seem kinda low, after she listed all the things she hated about it. Meier listed his hookups with the job too. Biggest being him not being a father or just being able to rest. Maybe he can adopt one of those jaslips or human that will likely need a parent. It'll be interesting to see how this all unfolds
Byron Ritchie
I see people Elias to the emperor or a dreadnought but honestly he’s more like roboute gulliman in this scearnio
Apogee
I agree with you, but this convo circulates every Elias chapter. I’m concerned that the characters keep thinking of it as a resurrection but I guess it’s at the point of religious belief in a sense, each character will view it in a way that makes them the most comfortable
Apogee
Oh no, now the listeners have a hackable leader
DreamEnvoy
God, this whole chapter feels like "You created this mess, Elias. You clean it up."
Elliott
Just go ahead and chain Elias to a throne and force him to be SecGen for eternity like in 40k.
John
If it can philosophize it’s a person nuff said.
Cartoon dinosaur
synthetic lifeforms would be like that artificial cell that replicated itself. Or self replicating nanites. Or computer simulated self replicating programs. (It is being seriously considered if computer viruses are a type of alive). These robots are not alive under any kind of definition. Fucking hell they ARE FUCKING COPIES OF DEAD PEOPLE!!! They are people but they ARE NOT FUCKING ALIVE!!! I am a spec evo and biology nerd. I (somewhat) Know what I'm talking about!!!
Cartoon dinosaur
He is not a "synthetic lifeform" He is a robot that they made think its a dead man. I feel like I'm talking to a fucking brick wall.
Aerowarrier
Nah the Jaslips will prolly ally with the Arxur, seeing them as their best bet to get a better life moving forward, and that’ll lead to the Feds and what’s left of the KC allying with each other as a sort of “enemies of my enemies” thing. The Krev will probably just try to stay out of, but who knows what the Listeners and Underscales will do at that point
Aerowarrier
I wonder how Gress is gonna react to seeing that the adorable primates have created an almost carbon copy of themselves as a robot and put a living mind inside it. He’ll probably want a non-intelligent robot human to take home with him xD
Scarred Ragdoll
Robo-Elias thoughts were previously described as being generated by an advanced form of ChatGP (computer guessing what Elias would have thought). I'm not sure if that's what we want in a leader, especially in war time. Someone, correct me if I'm wrong on how this supposed technology works.
Almatty
If you had truly wanted out you should have gotten shot in the head.
Neu5Ac
All respect I had for Kuemper has left my body, like vapor rising from a fresh corpse on a cold day. Lady, you're going to quit your job when something goes wrong, then turn around and peer pressure someone who DIED doing that job into taking over for you? She's a fair-weather friend, only she's applying that to her critical governmental position. I have a theory on why Brazil wound up with such a strong industrial base that they're in charge of R&D and manufacturing. Brazil is a large territory, with a lot of land near the equator and an eastern seaboard, making it ideal for space launch infrastructure. What I suspect is that one or more major world powers made political agreements with them in exchange for building launch sites within their territory. This came useful during the Satellite Wars when those other major powers presumably destroyed each other's launch sites, but left Brazil untouched. Assuming that Brazil remained neutral, they may have had their own vehicles hitch a ride with other nations launches in exchange for using their facilities, and while everyone else was putting weapon or surveillance satellites in space, Brazil was sending up things like asteroid miners and zero-G factories. After the war, while everyone else was undergoing recession, Brazil would then be poised to become an industrial (and therefore economic) powerhouse. Finally, this would result in a "brain gain" scenario, where scientists and engineers from other parts of the world clock to Brazil for better opportunities, improving their scientific and technological status as well (not to mention the possibilities in material science advancement that comes with large-scale zero-G manufacturing).
XavHD
Battle Royale, last species standing is allowed to decide who to be prejudiced against next
Sci-fi reader
For the Emperor . And yeah. Elias talked about wanting children. Primarchs if you will.
Sci-fi reader
Not sure how I feel about immortal politicians. In case of war warm up Roosevelt or Churchill. In case of Constitution crisis warm up Hamilton. Same solutions over and over again.
TheBlack2007
We even have backups of your memory so even when your psyche is too far gone we’ll just restore an old backup and send you back in with you being none the wiser. Brave new world…
Pierre Florendo
"Only in death does duty end." Except for you Elias, sorry!
Sroni
Poor Elias. "Hey, we know you've done your fair share, and you even died, but a tiny part of you has been preserved, so in good Warhammer40K fashion we are going to stick you into a metal body and send you back into the carnage! Have fun!"
Kingarthur
Oh good. Even more shit found the fan. Can't even finish one war before they start a second and I feel like a third might start brewing within the kc once they find out what's going on.
Schnitzelsemmel
First. Oh god this is not good give my man Elias some peace
