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The Nature of Predators 2-49
🕑 Added 2024-06-24 11:00:11 +0000 UTCMemory Transcription Subject: Elias Meier, Former UN Secretary-General
Date [standardized human time]: August 11, 2160
The Duerten ambassador had walked away with a haughty air, until we were out of the Yulpa and Tevin’s eyesight. The manner in which he addressed me had caught me off-guard, to say the least; I’d felt as though Korajan was actively undermining me, not supporting my efforts. The real dagger to my heart was the “robot” remark, which made me feel about as human as a vacuum cleaner. While I expected the avian to be on my side for this meeting, he’d fanned the flames of the worst offenders’ hatred—leaving me to flounder and drown amid his bigoted accusations. Meanwhile, the diplomat looked oblivious to why I’d pulled him aside, tilting his head quizzically. I gritted my teeth, since his act of innocence aggravated me further.
“What were you doing, Korajan?” I demanded, a scowl marring my features. “We don’t want them thinking that we’re dangerous! We came here to try to get friendlier relations with the Shield, and anyone in your circle.”
Korajan scoffed. “That wasn’t going to happen with them. Do you realize who you were talking to? The Yulpa was openly wishing he could feed his god your blood, and the Tevin was an exterminator guildmaster. There’s a very good reason why humans aren’t brought here. Part of it, from those of us who like you not lightly toasted, is to protect you.”
“I know they don’t see us as people, but you played right into that assumption. Shit, you talked about me like I’m not a person. You called me a robot.”
“I apologize if that offended you; I thought my ‘take it in stride’ comment was sufficient warning. Somehow, I don’t think they’d have appreciated the finer distinctions of you being a digitized mind, imitating an entire neural network. I was following what I believed was your strategy—you emphasized to Ambassador Yali that you weren’t human. I thought that was your plan.”
“What happened to the Korajan who spoke in friendly terms about me and humanity with Yali? Who remembered Kalqua, and—”
“Elias, with all due respect, look who I was talking to in each instance. Yali was wary of you, but she does not hate you. They were never going to listen to a word you said if I didn’t distance myself from you, and tell them what they wanted to hear.”
“Then I don’t want to be listened to. They’re not going to listen to someone they call bot either.”
“Those people desapientize humans as ‘beast’ or ‘animal’; it’s obvious they’re going to do the same thing, but tailored to your unique situation. Them calling you bot, in my estimation, is an upgrade from savage predator, monstrosity, and killer. I thought our top priority was to get as much support as possible, to save lives. Every ship counts. Did I misunderstand what we’re doing here?”
I ran a hand through my hair, hesitating. “Ambassador, I meant what I told Yali. My hope was to befriend Shield members, and try to get through to them in that…we’re not to be feared. This isn’t just about today’s war. I want to see the galaxy heal from the Federation’s hatred, the past cycle of bloodshed…the deaths we might’ve caused in the past. Instead, I see both sides circling the drain.”
“Both sides? The Sapient Coalition too?”
“The United Nations sealing entire planets away, and not mending fences, is part of it. We did let certain worlds rot. We gave up trying to fix things, and that makes us part of the problem. Korajan, I don’t want to be accepting the same old hatred from anyone. Someone has to stand up and decide enough is enough.”
The Duerten went silent for what felt like a full minute, folding his wings. “Those certain worlds you speak of. They’re Wriss, Aafa, and Talsk.”
“Yes. They are.”
“They have all done unspeakable things. Elias, they either ate my people, or ate their souls by homogenizing us.”
“I know. But as long as we carry hatred, there can be no healing. The future is still ours to shape, Korajan, and I don’t want to let the past continue to decide it.”
“You forget one key aspect. You can’t make others stop hating you; the Yulpa and the Tevin don’t want to let go,” the Duerten sighed. “I strongly advise you to keep that message to the Sapient Coalition. Deal with your own people first. For the sake of our diplomatic relations, I’ll pretend I didn’t hear you ask for Aafa’s release.”
“I’m speaking as myself, not as the United Nations’ official—”
“I’m aware, Elias. The good news is, the worst group is behind us, and you might realize that visiting the Federation remnants—as I believe is your eventual aspiration—is an exercise in assisted suicide. The rest of your visit can get better, and we’ve hopefully put a dampener on the heckling I imagine you’ll get during your speech.”
“I haven’t been informed when my speaking slot will be.”
“It should be in a few minutes. Again, they don’t intend for you to be here long. I wanted you to make the most of the brief opportunity—at least leave the door open to be invited back. We always had to pick who we’d approach. Candidly, Syba will likely be more effective in one-on-ones.”
I shuffled back toward the grand corridor we’d entered in, and saw a group of diplomats in hysterics around the Sulean. Once I’d acquired the proper angle, I noticed that Syba was showing a montage of humans…basically being idiots. One guy appeared to be mounting a frantic search for an item, tearing apart his home and looking under couch cushions. The film ceased as he lifted his sunglasses right off the top of his head, with an exasperated look. I inferred that the comedic element was that the Terran had been unable to locate an accessory right on his skull. Vynle’s image replaced the video, as he scrunched his face up at the camera—before slapping his antlers against his desk.
I suppose that is how Suleans “facepalm,” unless this is just a Vynle thing. The guy was an animated host.
“They’re apex predators?” Vynle shouted at the camera. “What I’ve learned here is that, if a human ever tries to hunt you, sit right in front of their face. They won’t see a damn thing, and it’s not just because of their keyhole vision. Good grief, it’s like a Sulean losing their antlers! Do we need anything Terrans touch to buzz periodically, so they remember if it’s stapled to their skulls?!”
Syba tossed her head back, chuckling. “Humans really are quite…aimless, sometimes. It’s hard to be afraid of them, when they’re just awkward and bumbling around! One of my Terran coworkers claimed she had an ‘elf’…er, a mythical creature…that took her things from where she left them, and hid them.”
“If you want them not to be afraid of you, Syba’s doing good work. I’m sorry I wasn’t more help, Elias,” Korajan murmured.
I patted the Duerten on the back, forcing myself to shake off the sting of that pesky “robot” insult. “It’s fine. You weren’t wrong that we want as many ships as possible. I…I have to save Nishtal. I just have to make the Shield see humans as people too.”
“Then patience is a must-have, friend. There’s still much of the Federation in this place. Now, I see a displeased Ulven coming our way; I imagine he wants you to get on with the main event, so they can kick you from our nest. Good luck with your speech.”
I nodded in acknowledgement, taking care to wipe any semblance of strong emotions off of my face. Many species thought that humans were unreadable, compared to the animated trunk, ear, and tail movements that pervaded the rest of the galaxy, but they eventually learned that our expressions gave away our exact sentiments. The Ulven’s deep brown pelt popped out of the corner of my vision, their short trunk looking off amid a swine-like face. They’d had no interest in aiding us in the war, when I paid a visit to their embassy on Earth. If word of the Arxur breaching quarantine got out, amid our efforts with the Osirs and the Bissems…this speech could be our final chance at reaching the Shield. What if Korajan had a point, that there wasn’t anything I could say to change their hatred of humanity?
Perhaps I should’ve settled for gaining aid in the war, knowing that they wouldn’t hate the Krakotl. First and foremost, it’s my goal to save lives today; arguing for my own personhood or fluffing up humanity’s reputation aren’t as urgent. I can tell when I’m not wanted.
I extended my hands off to the side, trying to show open palms and relaxed intentions. “How may I help you? There’s no questions that are off-limits—and might I add how gracious it is of you to host us. I am honored to be the first representative of the United Nations here.”
“You said you wanted to address us, so go give that address,” the Ulven huffed. “The Federation allowed humanity to speak once, and then shot down the idea of partnering with you. Our internal vote should be equally decisive.”
“We would go to the lengths of the galaxy for the hope of securing one new friend. This opportunity is greatly appreciated.”
“This is about threats to the Shield, with the new enemy in the war. We have no choice but to humor you—to assess the threat.”
“I think that’s a smart, logical decision, and I hope that we’re able to ensure everyone’s safety together. We can face this as one. I have conviction in that regard.”
“Say what you’ve come to say, or leave. I have no interest in further discourse with any…software that emulates a human. What is the Sapient Coalition even thinking, giving machines the sapient personalities of dead hunters?”
“For the most part, no one wants to die, and I’m afraid it’s an inevitable reality of being alive. It’s a discussion I would like to have some day, which I think you should be included in. Dissenting voices are important to reach any determination, especially on an issue so important that it decides what being alive means.”
“We want no part in your amoral internal affairs. The microphone is on the raised platform. Do you even have words to bark, or was this all a ruse? We have exterminators on site: plenty of security for the likes of you.”
I took a cautious step toward the podium, wondering whether my skin would even burn. Thankfully, there was no sense of pain in my current body—a welcome reprieve after the constant aches I’d felt as I climbed upward in age. Immolation was one of the most agonizing ways to die, so I wasn’t sure why the exterminators refused to forsake it: unless it was cruelty for cruelty’s sake. My mind flickered back to when I’d first learned of the predator-torchers, during our exchange program with the Venlil; Governor Tarva’s office had advised me they might be a problem for Terran visitors on her world. It was a very different time in relations for the species who were now our inseparable best friends. The fact that her planet’s true name, Skalga, meant “World of Death,” was one of the most surprising things I’d learned about the new era.
Syba scurried over to me, eyes gleaming with encouragement. “I heard they want to get rid of you, Mr. Elias. That was awfully quick to rush you along to your speech.”
“All I asked of Yali was to get in for a speaking slot, and she fulfilled my request; it seems it was difficult to persuade the Shield to give us an inch,” I responded. “This brief moment we had to stand face-to-face…anything we got was a bonus. Like you said, we have to make the most of it.”
“That’s why I brought pamphlets, about how this is the most peaceful era in human history—you haven’t fought an internal war since First Contact! It was a wake-up call to you, I think, and it’s a good option to refute all of those awful historical references. The Suleans need to get diplomatic channels open on The Sailer, one way or another. Imagine the progress if we had a permanent observer here!”
“Let’s not get ahead of ourselves, Syba. I am floored that the Federation remnants—who still have the nerve to call themselves the Galactic Federation, as if picking up where they left off—are here.”
“Everything is a matter of perspective, and I know that you can find the bright sides in the deepest darkness: you’re the one who did it for your whole species, in your darkest days! Keep your chin up. Look at it this way. The Federation remnants were here, while we weren’t, but now, we’re here too. That is progress and inclusion, plus, more people we can start to make things better with!”
“You do have a certain way of looking at things. Don’t lose that.” I couldn’t help but to smile, as the involuntary expression of fondness and admiration still transpired in my synthetic form—down to the telltale crinkles near the eyes, signifying a true smile. Virnt had done his research on that aspect, getting the galaxy’s much-maligned “snarl” down pat. “I will say that I’ve been threatened by multiple parties here. Just, out of an abundance of caution, could you go back to the ship? Make whatever excuse you need to, but the SC needs to know about the Fed remnants’ presence.”
“You can count on me! Just like I can count on you to show them that undying hopefulness—”
“Undying. Syba, was that pun intentional?”
“What do you think?” The Sulean squeezed me in an unexpected hug—while it thankfully didn’t suck the nonexistent breath out of me, it did startle me. She didn’t offer any commentary about the lack of body warmth, though there was a slight loosening of her grip: as if for a moment, she’d wanted to pull away. “You have to laugh at yourself; that’s what my dad always taught me. If you can do that, nothing can hurt you!”
Syba scampered off with boundless energy, clearly unconcerned with the hostile environment we found ourselves in; her enthusiasm was contagious. I was grateful that I hadn’t come to the Shield meeting alone, especially without how Korajan had been lacking in execution for his supportive presence. My steps became more sure-footed as my soles touched the raised platform, and I once again felt every pair of eyes turn to me. When I first became a diplomat, I never imagined I’d be addressing an alien audience. The first time I met a Venlil in person, I’d felt the hairs on my neck stand upright—that goosebumps and shivers sensation didn’t exist for me anymore, which I was grateful for. It was enough to try to focus my brain and find the words. Even someone like myself, seasoned in public speaking, could never be truly comfortable facing such a crowd.
I stared out into the audience, immediately picking the Yulpa and the Tevin from before out of the crowd. “It wasn’t that long ago that each of you learned that a race of predators, who the Federation had observed a most terrible pattern of violence from, had not wiped themselves out. Instead, humanity had reached the stars—and reached out to you. It’s been decades of us begging you to see that we’re not monsters, and that your enmity or subservience isn’t our desire. We’ve peacefully coexisted with herbivores, as friends and neighbors, for decades.”
“You changed those herbivores to be like you!” the Tevin protested. “Your carcass-nibbling ways have corrupted others.”
“There’s much more to what it means to be human than our diet, yet you refuse to see that. If that were the sole purpose my brain worked toward, then how would I stay sane at all, when I cannot eat—cannot hunger? I could take the easy route here, instead of pounding my head against a proverbial brick wall. I could beg you merely to stand with us against a murderous enemy, but you already know that saving the innocent worlds under threat is the right thing to do. What you do with that is your decision, and has nothing to do with us. I’m here to ask a question.”
“We don’t owe you any answers,” spat the Ulven who’d hurried me to the platform. “You should leave.”
My jaw locked. “Not yet. I’m here to ask one single question. What proof would it take for you to believe there’s more to humanity than our lowest moments, as a species? Would anything be enough?”
Several voices shouted answers at me, many of which were charged with vitriol for my species. I stood calmly by the microphone, binocular eyes sweeping across the audience with an unspoken challenge. Ambassador Korajan was cradling his head in his wings; I inferred that the Duerten didn’t approve of my confrontational technique. Someone had to challenge the biases and hatred that pervaded this organization, and all of its counterparts in the Orion Arm. I wasn’t backing down to anyone who’d continue the cycle of hatred, or considered my species to be mere animals. Perhaps it was hopeless, but at least I could say I tried—that I never stopped fighting for what I believed in. There was too much at stake just to throw in the towel.
“I have nothing to hide from you; I can show you exactly what’s going on in my mind. You can run your own transcript tech on the image of my brain, and see for yourself,” I pressed on. “My sole desire is a better future, and to protect my people—no, all people. Continued hostility toward each other, division of this tiny corner of space: what does that achieve for any of us? You might continue to harbor hatred for me and every human that has ever lived, in your hearts, but I know what’s in mine. Verify that as much as you need.”
Leshee Ambassador Yali hopped forward, apprehensive to speak. “We…do not all hate you, Elias. We simply don’t want to get too close to…a highly dangerous and volatile species.”
I softened my voice, pressing a hand to the spot in my chest where a heart should have been beating. “We aren’t that different from you. We have hopes, dreams, loved ones…curiosity, fear, and insecurities. In my last moments, we were mourning those that had died in Earth’s bombardment. It hurt so terribly, to think how many lives were lost under my supervision, that it burned my soul. I wanted my legacy to be peace, and those were my last words—when there was nothing I could’ve possibly gained. The final whispers of consciousness were the people I loved: memories of them. If my species is volatile, it’s because we feel more deeply than you can imagine.”
“What is the point of this meandering rant?” the Yulpa objected.
“That it’s time to turn the page, and leave our past grudges and differences behind. If we both want what’s best for all people moving forward, what does any of the rest of it matter? Give us a chance to be more than the monsters you decided we are. It’s never too late to start healing; all it takes is for one of you to take the first step. A leap of hope.”
Contempt shone in the Ulven’s eyes. “It’s time for you to leave, predator. You don’t belong here.”
I waved a hand in farewell, leaning in for a final word on the microphone. “Humanity’s door is always open; our differences don’t have to be irreconcilable. I hope we can continue this dialogue, and foster a genuine trust and partnership between our peoples. Thank you for listening.”
As I was ushered out of The Sailer in a hurry, the fire died down within my spirit. Korajan’s uncertainty still knocked in my mind, and I was uncertain if my speech had fallen on any receptive ears. Had this visit accomplished anything on humanity’s behalf? I didn’t want to fail the United Nations, especially when this was our single peek inside of the Shield the past two and a half decades. What if I had botched this mission enough that it threw away potential support for the planetary defenses, and I had to wrestle with the guilt of more lives lost because of my choices? My processors slowed in their spiral as I thought of Syba’s blind optimism; while I couldn’t guarantee they’d ever stop hating us, I’d had to try. That entire speech had been a leap of hope, that healing was possible even when the odds seemed bleak.
All it would take would be one species taking the leap with me, to make my plea worthwhile. Just as a single spark was enough to start a blaze, a sole change for the better was enough to improve the galaxy humanity found ourselves in.
A/N - Chapter 49! Meier confronts Korajan, who gives his reasoning for trying to appeal to the Fed remnants, and then is hurried on to give his speech…after Syba draws a laugh from the diplomats, and reminds him to look at the situation with positivity. Our narrator lays his heart bare, begging the Shield and its guests to let go of old hatred, asking what proof it’d take for them to see that there’s more to humanity. What do you think of Korajan’s cynical rationale, just trying to get ships in the only way he believes might work? What do you think of the speech Meier chose to give; and how do you expect the audience will receive and act on it?
As always, thank you for reading and supporting!
Comments
Some Lvm
@Cartoon dinosaur: Any reasonable nation can get past what happens during wars. 20 years is plenty of time for them to get past the cyberattack. The real issue is why they don't believe there can ever be peace with humans. Maybe in deeper discussions they would have time and reasons to bring that up, but in the public forum they will stick to their core convictions, which this is really all about: Humans eat meat -> humans inherently evil -> must never befriend humans.
Some Lvm
It was necessary, and if anything - it was the leas harmful option. If those Fed remnants had joined the fray, their worlds would have been left defenseless, and immediately raided by the Dominion. Or, the Coalition might have been cornered and forced to glass a few of them. When you go to war, people on your side are going to die. Including civilians. That is how wars work. There is no such thing as "clean" war. Wars are not contests, they are not competitions, they don't have any rules other than the ones each side chooses to impose upon it self.
Some Lvm
I couldn't agree with you more! Honestly, I can easily think of real world examples that prove it, but I don't feel comfortable discussing them here.
Some Lvm
I like Korajan! He is practical, and a very good diplomat. I think Meir underestimates just how much Korajan just accomplished for the UN and the SC. Syba is a hoot. I like her character a lot, but I am afraid she might be a bit too naive for this particular crowd.
PhycoKrusk
@Elias The "world's finest", in other words.
EliasArt2Life
@PhycoKrusk “Several things in there which are not representative of anything I said” if I misinterpreted some of what you meant, then I apologize. “Meier inspires hope, and whether this is the real Elias Meier or not doesn't really matter because he inspires others to hope for that better tomorrow” Aww no; you figured that one out by yourself. There goes two paragraphs in my discussion on if this Meier is real or not. “I've been reading this with the attitude that the UN needs a man of action. Maybe what they really need is a Man of Steel.” Honestly, the UN could use both. I’ve honestly always considered Zhao to be a foil for Meier. Meier is good at diplomacy and knows how to pursue friendship, even when it seems hopeless, but he coolly resorted to war when absolutely necessary, and was hesitant even then. Zhao had no trouble diving into war; it was diplomacy he struggled with. Zhao grew into his diplomatic role slowly over the course of NOP1, but typically only exercised diplomacy with those who were already open to it. He wasn’t good at pursuing friendship with those who hated us. At this point, the UN needs both.
Button
If I was in this story, I'd want the SC to wash their hands of the Shield and Federation remnants. Humanity isn't what it was 24 years ago. We're stronger, we have allies, and we don't need to grovel before the blind and bigots, begging them to, for one fleeting moment, see us as people instead of monsters for what comes down to a quirk of evolution. And yet, doing that would only add more dead to the pile, killed by the very same flawed thinking that caused the Federation to despise and fear humanity in the first place: They are not like us, so why bother?
Space Paladin
You know what they say about the devil you know…
pogman
God, Elias' idealism is so intoxicating
George Smith
You know, at some point humanity really just needs to cut its losses and start dealing with species that were never part of the federation without the SC involved. There’s a whole galaxy out there to explore that’s not filled with racist aliens.
PhycoKrusk
@Elias Several things in there which are not representative of anything I said, a couple good points, and I'm not going to address any of them. You got me thinking, and I realize that I've been looking in the wrong place as far as Meier's achievements. I should have been looking at Syba. She owes basically everything to Zhao for ensuring that she could grow up free of the Federation, but the one she wants to emulate is Meier. Because it isn't just about what you can do for others; it's about what you inspire in others. Meier inspires hope, and whether this is the real Elias Meier or not doesn't really matter because he inspires others to hope for that better tomorrow, and as long as there is hope, everything is within reach. That's why he's taking the path he is, because if even one of those Federation diplomats walks away from this meeting with just a glimmer of hope for something better, they can reach for something better. That's why everyone is pinning so much on Meier. I've been reading this with the attitude that the UN needs a man of action. Maybe what they really need is a Man of Steel.
Wesley Rigg
War is cruelty. There is no use trying to reform it. The crueler it is, the sooner it will be over. - General Sherman.
Kevo
I bet there’s a galactictuber or secret warlord out there among the auxur, also I’m just imagining how the ol’ remnants of the feds would think of other herbivores seeing them as horrendous
Space Paladin
Very true! The Duerten deeply resent the bombing of Kalqua…they wanted Aafa glassed back in the first book, shadow caste or not!
Conure King!
Ya, I think it speaks to a hatred for the Koloshians, not forgiveness of the arxur though.
EliasArt2Life
The Arxur tried to genocide them (and Isif’s rebels saved them). The Kolshians tried and nearly succeeded.
EliasArt2Life
@Gumcel True, but I was hoping to avoid bringing it up. It kind of kills a lot of the chance for discussion.
Conure King!
I find it interesting how out of the worlds mentioned, Alfa was the one Korajan zoned in on, and not Wriss. Really shows hatred for those poor souls.
Gumcel
His gambit will pay off, because he’s literally espousing the primary message of the book. “That it’s time to turn the page, and leave our past grudges and differences behind. If we both want what’s best for all people moving forward, what does any of the rest of it matter? Give us a chance to be more than the monsters you decided we are. It’s never too late to start healing; all it takes is for one of you to take the first step. A leap of hope.” This paragraph is one of many that pretty bluntly state sp’s beliefs and the book’s message. Meier worries that he made things worse, but I would be surprised if that actually happened. If Meier was actually punished for reaching out and trying to mend rifts it would completely undermine the book’s core message.
Gumcel
“How may I help you? There’s no questions that are off-limits—and might I add how gracious it is of you to host us. I am honored to be the first representative of the United Nations here.” Meier doesn’t like Korajan’s approach, but it didn’t seem like he had much of a plan. Him wasting time talking about nothing is especially dumb when almost everyone in the room wants you dead.
EliasArt2Life
@PhycoKrusk Saying “that’s war” to a bunch of aliens still clinging onto their indoctrination that’s says that “only predators war” isn’t a good idea, true or not. And YES, they did plenty of stuff like that, and NO they aren’t aware of the obvious. I HATE having to suspend logic to understand these guys… @Cartoon Dinosaur Most of the Shield were not targeted by the cyber attacks. Ones like the Yulpa are exceptions to that trend. I’d say that most of the Shield, who heard from the Duerten how hard the battle at Aafa was, understand to some extent why it was necessary. The others probably just don’t have enough political sway to use that as a way to toss Meier out. As for the Federation Remnant observers, they’re just that; observers. They don’t get much of a day in this. If they want to keep observing no, they stay quiet and watch until the meeting is over.
EliasArt2Life
I find that calling someone too “idealistic” is a poor argument. It implies that idealism is always flawed. To clarify, it is flawed sometimes. If you idealistically expect things to go well for you, and wait for things to turn out right, they probably won’t. But if you’re like Meier, you want an idealistic future, and are then willing to put in the work to bring about that future. Meier doesn’t expect things to go right NOW, or EASILY; he’s expecting it to be HARD and take a LONG time. It’s like pacifism; if your pacifism doesn’t allow you to defend yourself, even against those who don’t care about your pacifism and just want you hurt or dead, yeah, pacifism doesn’t work. If you make allowances for when there’s no other choice, or at least confront and accept how much harder it is to deal with problems while holding onto a pacifistic ideal, THEN it can be an effective stance. I think you could find an argument if you wanted to claim that Meier’s priorities are wrong, but claiming he’s too idealistic, when he’s a the right kind of idealistic isn’t a good foundation for an argument. At best, it’s a matter of perspective/opinion. At worst, it’s objectively wrong. (Granted I’m not sure where on the scale of “best to worst” it falls, but I think even the best outcome is too weak to act as the foundation of an argument/factual claim. It WOULD be good as a DEBATE topic, though.) I’m going to be honest, your talk about how Meier could have never led the UN in the war is VERY flawed. Firstly, since Meier was dead, we don’t know what would have happened; it’s all speculation. You ASSUME he couldn’t have found another way, or that Zhao’s way was the only way. You also assume that this current Meier’s opinion (a Meier who has only had to experience the war in abstract) would be the same as a Meier who actually had to live through the war. I’ll be straightforward here, I find that to be a very hypocritical stance, given that YOU’RE the guy who’s made multiple, long posts about how “this isn’t the real Meier” and he’s “not the same”. You feel that there’s a fundamental difference between this Meier and the original. Yet, apparently, you’re willing to take THIS Meier’s thoughts as PROOF of what the original Meier would have felt about the cyber attacks? You can’t have it both way. You can’t scream it from the roof as you promised you would, while also taking that back the second it supports another one of your arguments. (As for my thoughts on if this Meier is equivalent to the original, I’m opting out of that conversation for now; I’ve decided it’ll be more interesting if I wait until the clamor about it has died down some more.) ALL OF THIS, and you STILL forgot a part of NOP1. It was MEIER who called in the Arxur against the Extermination Fleet. The single most impactful decision made by humanity in NOP1 (aside from the cyber attack, though depending on how you look at it, maybe they’re equally as impactful) was made by Meier. That alone proves that Meier DOES have the guts to make those calls. He just rags remorse about the cost. But even still, he went into it knowing that if he failed, it would mean the destruction of nearly 40 species’ home worlds, and he still did that. I can see that you like Zhao, and want to put your foot down and show that Zhao was more than “Meier’s lesser replacement” in NOP1; you want to show that he was his own character who made it possible to win the war. However, in your haste to defend Zhao, you’ve made a bunch of flawed claims, and have destabilized a number of your other arguments on different topics. Zhao IS his own character, and I think NOP1 would be less without him, but arguing that Meier could never do what Zhao did, in the way you argued it, is an exercise in speculation, and argumentation.
EliasArt2Life
My thoughts: While I still agree with Korajan’s methods, I’ve changed my mind on Meier’s. It’s not that his strategy is flawed; he just got a different goal than I realized. He’s making the right moves for his goals. I also can’t blame Meier for going for those goals; it’s who he is. He’s always striven to aim for something more than everyone else is willing to settle. When he found out that the galaxy hated humanity, rather than hiding humanity away behind endless defenses, he tried to make friends. While that led to a lot of pain and trouble, it’s also led to the SC we see today. I also have to agree with Meier’s assessment of the SC and UN. The aliens of the SC aren’t the only ones who have settled for the status quo; the UN has also stopped pushing for a better galaxy. And Meier is right; it’s leading to a decline. While I defended Korajan, I still have to admit that Syba is better at those tactics than Korajan. She managed to play into their hatred while also making humans look LESS harmless, and think Korajan realized that. We’ll have to see if Meier’s gamble pays off, but I kind of respect him for it regardless. That willingness to try is, as he said, something that’s been missing from the UN lately. @Space Paladin , Syba hugging Meier. During the Omnivore miniseries, Lynne said that hugs were an “inappropriate” gesture in Sulean culture. Granted, Elka hugged him around the neck, but I assumed he got a pass due to him being suicidal and about to fall. Was Lyben lying to Nadia about the hugs, or are you hinting at something else. … or did you just forget, because that WAS a long time ago, and I could see you forgetting. Alright, I know that a lot of you guys have strong feeling about Meier’s strategy here, so here’s the deal, just don’t restate the same stuff that someone else has already said, so I don’t have to repeat myself a bunch. And if your argument is to call Meier too idealistic, please don’t; I’m going to respond to that in @PhycoKrusk ’s comment when I get a chance.
Cartoon dinosaur
thats not my point, my point is they want to hate humans and they have a reason too, but they still cling to carcass nimbler or other things humans dont do and ignoring the cyber attacks. keep in mind that current projections list around 70% of the 1rst world would die in 3 months if the power went out. We have no idea how many people the cyber attacks killed but they can just point to that and say get the fuck out but they just act like it never happened.
Rohn Carver
Well doupt he can use the phrase "passions of the flesh" at this point, A good way to realistically view how miers situation can be properly rationalized is by 3 things, a human has 3 minds of existence. The soul housed within the heart, the ego-( Conciousness) housed within the brain, and the subconscious housed within the anals of both the body and the mind. While only one of these is freed upon death, two are left to wither and die. With this new tech to capture the ego we can save the consciousness of a person. A soul is freed, but the subconscious remains and is left to die with the body. The biggest meirs is facing now is the lack of subconscious mind that controls the body passively. It's 100 times stronger than the conscious mind and is what helps the conscious mind filter and process information, sensation, and bodily functions. Without it there is a build up of information and the mind begins to eat it's self because it simply can not shut off.
PhycoKrusk
That is all correct, and that's war. People die in war, and the only luxury that any side ever gets is deciding how many enemy lives equal one of their own. If someone seeks to harm you, the only rational course of action is to meet them with maximum force, and the UN _still_ could have hit them even harder than they did; once they had crippled everyone, they didn't loop back around to finish the job. Sorry, but if somebody attacks you unprovoked, and you restrain yourself from responding with the maximum amount of force you can, you are not the bad guy.
Space Paladin
I enjoy a good philosophical conversation! Where does man end and machine begin? Side note, I was talking on discord about one of my favorite Star Trek episodes (measure of a man), and it’s so perfect a tie in…how do you prove that you are sentient? It’s inevitable if it’s possible that synthetic lifeforms will exist, though in what form, only the future will tell 😅
Apogee
True, very true, but this may be better in the long run. The feds are gonna be hit harder than the SC and they are problematic allies, friendly fire would be likely not to mention *their* bloodlust making them go all in no matter who gets obliterated we don’t need more dead worlds. Not to mention how the KC would react if they discovered the two had teamed up, this way the SC has a better chance of being seen as a separate entity. So the SC may have accidentally dodged a bullet there
PhycoKrusk
This chapter is a shining example of why Meier struggles as a diplomat: He is a willful idealist, and will stick to his ideals even after he acknowledges that the situation demands he investigate a more grounded solution. It's why he was never going to lead the way to victory in the Orion War, or at least why any such victory would have come at a substantially greater cost. He would not have greenlit the cyber attack: Would that have saved lives? Sure, in the short term. But as the war dragged on and on, an equal if not greater number of lives would have been lost by the time it drew to a close, at a much greater material cost; as it stands, the 30 or so members of the Coalition left the war with their economies and infrastructure more or less intact. With a prolonged war, that would not have been the case. Isif's rebellion would likely have failed over the course of a protracted Orion War, or at least would have settled into a substantially different role, very likely as the primary military arm of the Duerten Shield against the still-standing Dominion. And lastly, at the end of it all, Humanity would probably have still fallen, or at least been badly diminished. Meier made a hard decision once with tipping the Arxur off to undefended Federation worlds, and he hated it; he would not have made another such decision, and so the UN would not have. Zhao was prepared and willing to make as many hard decisions as were necessary to win, and so the UN did. That's war.
Cartoon dinosaur
it doesn't matter, people still died from it and you cant say "It was a necessary evil" or some shit to them and expect them to agree with you. People died and they would hate you for pulling hate trigger no matter how "justified" you were.
PhycoKrusk
That's war.
Neu5Ac
Yep, that's the fundamental process for cults. Convince someone that you're the only ones who truly understand them, isolate them from their preexisting social groups, then pressure them into increasingly radical cult actions, punishing them if they resist with humiliation, ostracization, or even violence. I studied cults while in college, and once you start seeing the pattern of behavior, it becomes a little frightening to see just how many cults there are out there that aren't acknowledged as such (and worse, will get you in trouble if you do try to acknowledge them).
StormTheSquid
This is how most distributed data systems work. The same reason why there can be an outage for a website in one country but not another. There are datacenters around the world, servers hosting patreon and the content people put on it, and that content doesn't travel instantly. It takes time to propagate through the network, replicating itself into each node, each server, along the way. And that process isn't instant, nor is it constant. Things are bundled together and sent in X sized chunks, and it takes Y amount of time to send, copy itself to the server, save itself there, load the old version and repeat after Z amount of time. It's the same reason why when I played League of Legends with my Australian friends years ago, I had to play with nearly one full second of delay to the server.
Cartoon dinosaur
why didn't they mention the cyber attacks? Everything said fell on deaf ears because humanity has hurt every fed remnant there, whether or not it was necessary they would be angry about the unavoidable loss of civilian life yet they act like it didn't happen?
PiñaPiloto
"Cogito, ergo sum - I think, therefore I am" would be a neat quote to throw in when discussing Meier's synthetic life, and I hope we do get to see more conversations about the philosophy behind reviving the dead with robotics.
Daru Arura
That would be fantastic. I imagine prey-mindset comedy would come from a different place than where our normal heads are at. As promotes, we naturally pick at each other and ourselves. I wonder how a herd mentality comedy would look.
Space Paladin
Meier and Korajan both definitely have valid points! Kora wants to guarantee military allies in a perilous time, and Meier wants to make things better/not give up that dream where humans kept trying to make friends in spite of everything. Both think they’re helping and doing the right thing I actually was thinking about doing a Vynle one-shot, comedy would be a fresh take 😅
Byron Ritchie
Man once the consortium finds out about the yulpans they will have some… choice “words”
Rohn Carver
at this point they should just let what's coming come; a war at this point in time for earth humanity is an unwelcomed one, but a warranted one. Now with that said I see tellus being a linchpin that will get the sivkits onboard with the sapient coalition. What will need to be done is root out those who truly do not want peace with humanity, and those who do absolutely want peace with humanity could be safe one the war starts and we get in contact with the consortium explaining who are now allies are.
Apogee
I think Elias choose the right tack. The shield is not neutral clearly. And fighting alongside them would be more trouble than it’s worth, to big a chance they would shoot SC ships just to get at the KC ships. Not to mention their pension for just wiping out the enemy with no mercy whatsoever. And the shield and it’s federation allies are gonna be attacked more, I think than the SC, let them take care of themselves.
Alekss Žukovskis
well i tried the first comment race, and got face-slapped with what otherwise would have been considered an error.
Mark Baculna
4th
Cheesy Power
I’m glad Meier took that approach in his speech- while I agree that some people simply aren’t going to listen, I see it as laying the groundwork for when this Shield/Federation alliance crashes and burns- which it inevitably will, because aligning with fanatics always results in either becoming one yourself or them turning on you for failing some sort of “purity” test. And look, he might have at least planted the seed of something in the Leshee- which even if it’s just them and the Duerten who jump ship once the Federation starts doing what they always do, that’s still a victory.
Swan
tbf, it might be good to try and change tactics a bit after two decades; I'm guessing that's part of the reason why the UN decided to help the Bissems as well (Not saying your wrong tho)
Willy
Sad truth is that you can’t call someone an idiot and expect them not to be an idiot. Now the idiots in the shield are banded together with the idiot fed remnants to further empower the idiot ball. The only real teacher is life. Love SP! ❤️ 🌊👽
Dookus Maximus
I'm not sure why it would show that for you, but on my end the time matches the time of "first guy's" comment
Constance Brown
Patreon probably doesn't make the post immediately available to everyone. They likely make the post available in one place and let it replicate around the world as people check the feed for content.
Elliott
As much of a good activist speech that was, it probably wasn't the best diplomatic one. I suppose it could get more dedicated results from anyone sympathetic there, but this was pretty high-risk high-reward. I'm definitely with Korajan here. Also I'm kind of interested in hearing more about Syba's dad if I'm being honest. I like the idea of a Federation late night show host. I don't know if you have any plans on doing even a one-shot with him but it's an interesting perspective I'd love to see fleshed out at some point.
Alekss Žukovskis
how come, theres nothing and a post appears over 2 minutes after the first guy comments?
pogman
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