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The Nature of Predators - Gojid Refugee (3/9)

🕑 Added 2024-02-17 12:00:06 +0000 UTC

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Some Lvm

A thought occurs to me: At which point exactly is Talpin deaf? I mean which part of the chain is malfunctioning? After learning how translators work in the NoP universe, it seems one of them could have easily replaced a cochlear implant or similar, and while without adjustment it probably wouldn't transmit all sounds, it would at least allow Talpin to hear speech. I know medical tech in Fed times sucked, but surely someone would have thought to at least try?

EliasArt2Life

@PhycoKrusk Are you kidding? There are few enough people in the comment section who are both willing to challenge and adapt as is. You come up with a ton of great thoughts and ideas. I may not always agree with them, but I’m alway glad to see them. You’re also willing to admit when someone else has a point. That’s one of the BEST qualities to have! I’ve noticed some people in the comments who refused to budge on ANYTHING, and eventually had to stop engaging with them. You can’t convince someone who refuses to be convinced, and debating with someone you know will never allow themselves to be convinced is a waste. I’m always happy to see your comments; you challenge me and my stances in a way only a few people in the comments do.

JustOffKilter

True.

Yannis Morris

Or he could go Beethoven with it and stay deaf

JustOffKilter

Even though it seems pretty certain that Talpin and Berna are the only survivors from Blessed Fields. Some part of me is still hopeful that, if Talpin gets a cochlear implant or something like that, that he tries his claw at making music and his father gets to hear it. That'd about warm the cockles of my jaded, cynical heart.

EliasArt2Life

@Space Paladin Ah! Thank you. I’ve been wondering about Gojid gestures for a while; I kept on getting mixed messages about them. This helps to clear them up.

Serpent_Bon 274

Are you telling me?

T___

I also think we do have extensive body language. Not many people are aware of using the nonverbal signals that we use to communicate. Actually, 60% to 65% of all communication is non-verbal! Think of facial expressions, eye gaze, gestures, posture, personal distance, body movements and in many cases, the things we don't say. We use them especially to express emotions or intentions.

Space Paladin

Thank you!

Space Paladin

The Gojids can’t use tail languages so they have more simple signals, like claw flicks, that function like ours

Invariance

"Being a powerful spacefaring society is irrelevant. The individual has an obligation to the herd, not the other way around." Some people would say that society actually does have an obligation to its members. It's not really just a question of resources, but about the culture of the federation as a whole; the way Salcic and Kittia (from the first chapter) were talking about Talpin when they thought he couldn't hear them doesn't speak of a culture that would immediately do better with sufficient resources: "Maybe we should let them know about his condition, since it’ll take their attention off of us. The weakest member of the herd could slow them down. They’d have to stop to eat their morsel…perhaps even fight over the honor. In many ways, they’d be doing him and his family a favor. Who would want to live like that—with that?"

EliasArt2Life

Actually, that won’t be until the following morning. But point taken!

EliasArt2Life

The Cradle has been described as if it’s a bastion against the Arxur. The culture and people have not been shown to be in need of supplies. Let me put it this way; if the Cradle is so short on resources that they cannot accommodate the deaf or otherwise disabled, there should be far more signs of this than a single throwaway line. There should be rationing, shortages of precious metals, people should be encouraged, if not made, to do work to provide more resources, etc. Talpin’s father’s job may be to help plants grow better, but it’s probably less desirable than getting another farmer or miner. Yet his job is still revered by the community, and he’s teaching his daughter the trade. I’m sorry, but I don’t see sufficient evidence to take the word “need” in Talpin’s reflection literally.

PhycoKrusk

They still let me hang around in spite of all the fights that I start, so I'm pretty sure you're good.

Ottwo

I mean I dunno bout you but if someone shot me I wouldn’t really want to work with them

Gumcel

Yumby Gobib (I am scraping the bottom of the barrel of things to say because I am struggling to think of anything clever but I still wanted to be a part of the discussions)

Gumcel

Yeah according to Sovlin, Talpin is nearly an adult, so like 16 at the youngest.

TheBlack2007

It's a society driven by a pretty collectivist ideology. Individuals are allowed to express themselves as long as they don't endanger "the herd" - and those who endanger it for reasons beyond their control, like people with disabilities, are eyed suspiciously. The Federation is known to be pretty backwards in terms of sociology. Which is entirely by design since it helps the Kolshian puppet masters to uphold their grasp on it.

Xelav

I really hope that their father made his way on evac shuttle es too and that they will reunite eventually, maybe we can even get his POV?

Yannis Morris

Considering how simple the accommodations end up being: I doubt they couldn’t spare anything

Yannis Morris

@PhycoKrusk I don’t think Talpin is a kid but otherwise great points. Man, imagine the mindfuck when they realize that giving extra to the disabled is apparently instinct to the “vile, nasty predators”

PhycoKrusk

Being a powerful spacefaring society is irrelevant. The individual has an obligation to the herd, not the other way around. @Mike Being impoverished is not the same as being at war. If all your resources have to go into producing food and into military adventures, you will not be able to spare the resources to accommodate disabilities.

Mike Rees

There are still facilities and language for the deaf in the most impoverished parts of Earth. An agrarian planet/culture should still have been able to provide for that.

PhycoKrusk

Makes perfect sense from almost any point of view: The Nazis were perfectly content to work with the Imperials to crush the Soviets, but always intended to turn on them as soon as it was convenient.

PhycoKrusk

S'wat I do.

mitsos_pr

They are a powerful spacefaring society. They should be able to accommodate deaf people. They are just unwilling to do it and don't view it as important.

Doodoomaan

Still waiting for that chapter where Sovlin went to Talpin's refugee center.

Paperclip

Yeah, that's a better analogy. I wrote this like right after waking up so it left my head

Doodoomaan

Krusk is right. It's not doublethink, it would make perfect sense from their point of view.

PhycoKrusk

I would like to propose something friends: We come down pretty hard on the Federation for how they "accommodate" their disabled citizens, and I think that this is proper. However, in this very chapter Talpin miss that the Humans wouldn't waste resources on him "when Gojids never could." On that reading that, I realized something: Talpin is not on Aafa, or any of the multitude of other planets and colonies. Why does that matter? Location, location, location. The Federation is, regardless of what's happening behind the scenes, embroiled in a war with the Dominion, and the cradle, if it is not the front line, might as well be. With only a handful of exceptions, every Gojid character we actually see has been a farmer, or otherwise involved in agriculture. As far as we have seen, the cradle's primary industry is agriculture, and they are many of the frontline soldiers against the Dominion. When Talpin says that Gojids can't spare resources for him, we have generally assumed that they can and simply won't. But what if Talpin's right? What if, because of the role and the corner that the Federation has forced them into, they actually can't spare those resources for him?

E G

I don't remember them.

Bungus Grungus

I wouldn't say it's more advanced, maybe a bit more common.

Ottwo

You’d make a good Fed lol.

PhycoKrusk

I mean, both _can_ be true at the same time; work together to get on the ground and then stab each other in the back.

PhycoKrusk

I'm also curious what happens before they cobble together his aid. Knowing how Humans tend to be with unfortunate kids, I kind of envision things like he ends up with a little bit extra when rations are distributed, or there's this guard on rounds sometimes who, when they pass by Talpin, slips him a piece of _fancy_ candy (because let's face it, the guards will be "sneaking" candy to all the children) and raises a finger to their lips to say "Shhh," as if it were a big secret and they'll get in trouble if someone finds out.

PhycoKrusk

And we do know that, at least at the refugee camp on Earth, it was not widely known to the Humans that he was deaf until after Sovlin arrived. I figure either they manage to hide it until that point (or at least accidentally convince everyone that it's something else), or a couple of the Humans do figure it out but all that really changes is they're more patient when they need Talpin to do things, or they switch their communication almost entirely to Berna ("Hey, could you tell him that....") As far as any of us know, they're taking the Gojids straight to Earth from the cradle, so they should only be in transit for a couple of days at most. They might stop on Skalga while command figures out what to do, but otherwise we aren't looking at a lot of time interacting with this batch, so they might actually manage to hide it.

PhycoKrusk

It's less like having to follow what you think are Nazis, and much, _much_ more like having to follow what you "know" are cannibals.

EliasArt2Life

“Predators would never waste resources on someone like me, when Gojids never could” … This whole time, it’s been repeated that “Predators will not understand why we choose to care for our disabled, to waste resources on them”, but it became very clear that the Federation was doing the bare minimum. But thinking of it, it’s not the Gojid community who is spending resources on Talpin; it’s his family. The fact that he’s aware of the fact that the average Gojid wouldn’t spend any resources on him if they could avoid it is sad. Just wow. It’s small, passing thoughts like this that sell just how deeply ingrained this sick ideology is to the society.

EliasArt2Life

Poor Talpin. The evacuation from the Gojid Cradle seemed frightening enough to the humans. Talpin is both a Gojid AND deaf. He is being forced to play catch up every step of the way. He can’t even understand what humans are asking of him, or their reassurances. All he gets are the secondhand accounts from Berna. I’m guessing that the next chapter will take place on Earth around when we first met the pair. Or it’s getting dragged out, which I’d be happy for as well. Question: can we get a rundown of just how alien gesture signals work? Some comments have made me reconsider them. We know that the signals are unique to each species, and that aliens consider our gestures to be something similar, but different. Best I can recall, alien gestures seem to communicate short ideas in quick movements: “I love you”, “go here”, “danger nearby”, etc. Where our gestures are more limited, and seem more focused on conveying emotions (like a shrug, eye roll, etc.). Alien gesture language doesn’t seem to have a way to spell things out, since that’s never been used (although it does seem capable of referring to an individual, likely through pointing). Also, one more thing; does Talpin know Gojid gestures? He flicked his claws in agreement back in chapter 1, but I’m not sure if that’s considered to really be Gesture language (in the same way human signs don’t seem to be exactly analogous). Aside from that… I skimmed this and the other chapters, I did not see anywhere where Talpin mentioned a Gojid gesturing a word or phrase. I distinctly recall reading that Gojids use claw signals, so I don’t think that Gojids lack a gesture language… Am I missing something?

Hello There

Keep it coming Paladin. Fantastic story telling

Alekss Žukovskis

*licks mayonaise from a bowl, hangrily*

Alekss Žukovskis

"meant my sister would refuse go with the flesh-beast’s evac ship." should be "refuse TO go"

EliasArt2Life

They have a “claw-language”, but I’m guessing that he’s nodding because he figures that humans won’t understand the Gojid equivalent. Edit: Nevermind; I hadn’t gotten to that point yet. It’s either made to reinforce his point, or the Gojid don’t have an equivalent/it’s exceedingly long. Despite being more advanced than our body language, alien signs seem to have many limitations.

Apogee

This is becoming my favorite miniseries! I think it’s the figuring out how to communicate. And Berna is slick! She cares so much about her brother, kinda like a mother to him I’m sure. I had a similar relationship with my little brother, especially since we had to survive a hostile environment. Can’t wait for the next chapter!

Space Paladin

@Kilo It’s pinned in #patron-only. If you can’t access it, you need to integrate your discord to your Patreon to get the role; a bot will give it automatically!

Kilo Rat

I'm trying to find that now, which channel is that in? I checked all over but I'm unable to find it. I don't see it in general-information either

I mean Talpin and Berna were in the original series.

Invariance

Ah that's right, I forgot about that. It's in the Species Glossary.

Finally, they're being fed not a Fed.

DemonVee

Haha, the worst thing is that there are people that actually think like this.

DemonVee

I think Gojids were mentioned to have too rigid tails for normal tail language in one of Sovlins first chapters

Invariance

I really like the idea of this as a side-story. "I mimicked the soldier’s nod for yes." Does tail language not have a sign for "yes"?

Edward ward

This made me laugh so much I scared my cat

Byron Ritchie

Cant wait when Talpin finds out the humans treat disabled people better then the feds (at least comparatively 🙁)

TheBlack2007

Also the ones he took to Aafa as witnesses.

Intricate Zebra

Somewhere, half a world away, a hangry lizard is currently being fed beef jerky by a confused monkey.

Ottwo

“Of course the humans would be working with the Arxur!” “Of course the humans would fight with the Arxur over cattle!” Talpin. Buddy.

Vladi Vladi

I think fewer things are more disgusting in this setting than Federation culture, especially from overzealous people like the Gojid, they just go on and on and on and on, they suck your empathy dry until you either move away from them to remain sane or pummel em into paste to make them shut up

un_pogaz

Damn shit their father. That tragic. Otherwise, of all the things about human going through his mind, the human "snarl" is one of the few things that isn't Federation bullshit. Seriously, even on Earth we're the rare ones to do that. I forgive him that misinterpretation (and all others aliens). Well, next chapter will probably start with a summary of refugee life and end with Solvin's intervention.

Byne

The pinned schedule on the discord has dates for at least 9 chapters.

Anemoia

Oh shit, I forgot Talpin and Berna were the Gojids Sovlin spoke to in the refugee camp

S1nsational

I hope this side story is going to be long, because while we're seeing a different side to The Cradle evacuation, we have seen much of this before. The part where this will start to get really interesting is when Talpin's disability is revealed. Which we see in the refugee camp in NOP1. What I really want to see in the aftermath of that. What happens with Talpin (and his sister, I'm pretty sure she was with in in the camp) after he was given his new disability aid. The first alien to receive such intervention from humans. And the first time Talpin got any support from anyone not his family

E G

I assume that human is trying to communicate and he's already exposing himself as deaf. I'm expecting another classic feddie breakdown sooner rather than later when he realizes he's not instantly dead the moment they realize he's got a disability.

Paperclip

Damn, having to leave behind your family to certain death must suck. Plus having to follow what you think are Nazis to their home with no chance of escape, that's awful. We already knew Talpin was on the therapy list, but now we know how MUCH he needs it.

Corporal Chunk

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