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The Nature of Predators - Gojid Refugee (1/9)

🕑 Added 2024-02-10 12:00:06 +0000 UTC

Comments

autotheftgrand

If you're going to talk about somebody behind their back, don't. Do it from farther away than that.

Wesley Rigg

Even if it doesn't provide new lore it can still be fun. I don't know about you, but fun is what I'm paying for here.

Bri

Excited to see how they ended up in NY!

Michael Morse

I need a name for that fic

Yannis Morris

@Edward Ward I gotcha

Mr Mopp

I don’t care if this goes back in time, we’re getting a deeper look at another character.

Edward ward

I think you might have missed my point. What I was saying is that Talpin and his sister likely learnt ASL because of who the UN brought in. You even point out that the translator can't work on sign. Tiping this I just realised that you probably think that I meant a translator machine. What I actually ment was that the UN hired a person that can hear and speak audibly as well as knowing at least one sign language. This person's job would be teaching Talpin and his family a sign language (likely ASL because they were in NY) as well as telling him (in sign) what people are saying to him. The moment I point to on skalga is when Sovlin says to "ask the humans why they are being so nice I don't get it either" Talpin looks to a human that starts signing to him. This is the translator I was talking about. Sovlin turns to Sam and asks her "you know language for the deaf. What are they saying?" And she tells him. My issue is that she (knowing Auslan) shouldn't know ASL. And to just assume that she does is a big ask because for one Auslan and ASL have different grammar rules. It's like assuming that someone that can read English can read French just because their alphabets share some letters.

TheBlack2007

At the very least it provides further world building for the hundreds of hobby-authors out there using this universe for their own stories. And sure, while it certainly doesn't take a genius to see where this story is going I'm still exited for how it will pan out and where Talpin will be by the time NOP2 begins.

RaptorRed

moar please and thank you.

John

“Savages Savages! Drive them from our galaxy!”

Vladi Vladi

I mean, I honestly see this story as pretty pointless if it doesn’t primarily continue from the last time we see Telpin in the main story. I’m fine with like 2 or even 1 chapter in ‘48-‘50. But I don’t really see the point in telling a story we can already guess, the prologue, when we can see how his life changes after he starts learning sign language or getting an implant.

TheBlack2007

This "predator"'s honest thoughts upon reading she sheer vileness of the gossip spread about Talpin based solely on a disability: "Savages! Savages! Barely even sapient!" Just goes to show how brainwashed this society is on all its levels. The main thing setting them apart from supposedly uncivilized "predators" is their capability to feel empathy whilst they themselves choose to withold it from anyone not fitting into the "herd" - it's sickening!

Alekss Žukovskis

source

Jonathan Cardoso Mota

One of the other gojid involved in Talpin's scenes with Sovlin

Yannis Morris

Nope. If it takes sign language at all (which we know it doesn’t because of that very same chapter) it would take Auslan as easily as ASL as easily as any verbal language. (It’s got a s**ton of verbal human languages)

Edward ward

Something that bugged me in the mane story around Talpin was the sign language over-site. Sam and her family are from Melbourne. So, they would learn Auslan. And IIRC Talpin and the refugees landed in New Youk. Meaning it’s more likely than not that the sign language teacher/translator that the UN brought in “spoke” ASL instead of Auslan. Meaning that Sam shod not have been able to read what they “said” on Skalga. So, I’m hoping that gets cleared up here.

Edward ward

who is Rumi?

Willie

Oh this guy is one of my favorites!

Greg Gougeon

Even though I know exactly what happens on cradle. It's really tense reading this I love it.

ColdBlooded Network

Usually I don't like The side series as much. But this one seems really interesting and i'm very excited about it.

PhycoKrusk

I had an eye on the Federation as having fascist elements - specifically that the state, or in this case, the herd is the source of all morality all therefore anything that the herd does is inherently moral no matter how horrible - but honestly, I think it being childlike actually fits better into what we see from them. I know this possibility has been mentioned elsewhere, but this is what made it really click for me.

Roscuro

Glad to see more of the boy. Felt like we didn't get enough of him in the main series.

BoxBoy

Woo, more gojid content! Love to finally get a look at the cradle pre-raid, and even a call back to Talpin. Very interested in what their perspective of everything'll be, especially when he learns of sign language and other ways to communicate with the deaf.

EliasArt2Life

My understanding is that it IS a brain implant. What I believe it does is trigger the “dictionary” part of the brain. Essentially, when you hear someone refer to a cherry, your mind triggers the neural pathway that corresponds to what “cherry” means to you (a small red berry, with a sweet taste, subtle tang, and stem). If you were to hear the word “cereza”, the Spanish word for cherry, you hear “cereza”, translate it to “cherry”, and THEN your mind defines what “cherry” means. It’s only after years of using a language that the definitions become natural, and you stop having to translate it. I think the translators bypass the translation entirely; you hear “cereza”, you have no idea what it means, but the translator triggers (a small red berry, with a sweet taste, subtle tang, and stem) in your mind. My guess is that these translators don’t work for deaf people because the translators only translate things that occur in the auditory center of the brain. Basically , you have to hear it and be able to make out the sounds for the implant to translate anything. Otherwise, it’s liable to send you signals when you don’t hear anything (which is a paranoia hazard if I ever heard of one). So it won’t work for Talpin because his brain never signals that he’s hearing anything.

Gumcel

As for the blatant hypocrisy with how empathic they think they vs how they act, the problem is obviously fed ideology, but more specifically: Federation ideology is inherently child like at its core, there are good groups that have good people who do good things, and there are bad groups that have bad people who do bad things. The Gojids are a good species, so whatever they deem an acceptable treatment of the disabled is good. Fed species never reflect on their behaviour in any meaningful way because they’re already inherently good, so why bother? Side note, I wonder if we’ll see Rumi? Dude showed up, got a name and was only relevant for like 2 or 3 chapters before never being seen again lol.

Tyler Ellis

Hope we get to see a bit more day to day life of a Cradle citizen! The peeps into how ordinary citizens act and alien culture are always great!

Gumcel

“I thought this during NOP1, but I REALLY hate how the Federation claimed that predators culled the weak and disabled, but they really have never been that much better. The mentally disabled are tortured to death in Predator Disease Facilities, and the physically disabled are pariahs. Talpin is allowed to live, but it’s clear that most people would be okay with removing him from the gene pool, or using him as a tool with no inherent value (arguably WORSE than just killing him), if they didn’t have to keep up the pretense of morality and empathy. They are a space age civilization and have apparently put ZERO effort into helping people with Talpin’s condition (or other conditions) live normal lives.” Because at its core federation ideology is simple and child like. There are good groups, that have good people who do good things, and bad groups that have bad people who do bad things. The Gojid are a good species, therefore whatever they deem to be an acceptable treatment of disabled is good. They never stop to reflect on their own behaviour because they’re already inherently good, so why bother?

Yannis Morris

@NextMan Shhhh

Gumcel

I feel like the odds of Beethoven being mentioned in this story are very high.

NextMan

That’s because of exhaled CO2. It’s not the sound or music directly. You could accomplish the same thing by breathing on them.

T___

"Even in the Middle Age we did better"? I haven't researched that yet, but I have the now, 2024. And it's sad and infuriating: In Ghana, physical disability is a spiritual sickness or curse. The treatment include chains, beating, starvation, and worse like putting burning powder to their ears, eyes, and mouth, and shackling the mentally ill to trees and depriving them of food. In India, many people believe disability is caused by bad karma as a result of wrongdoing in the disabled person's former or current life. Others view disabled persons with negative attitude and apathy. Teachers are often unwilling to accept students with disabilities. Disabled people might not have any property rights. In some areas of the countryside, children with physical disability are killed at birth. In urban areas, infanticide of disabled children is practiced. Conditions that are termed 'disabled' include also conditions like low vision, hard of hearing, dwarfism, chronic neurological conditions (Alzheimer's Parkinson's, MS, migraine, epilepsy, Tourette), specific learning disabilities, sickle cell disease, leprosy cured person, and acid attack victim. In South-Korea, even family members often think that the disability is detrimental to their social standing and try to hide the disabled person. USA and Japan, and Pakistan exexute people with mental or cognitive disability. Kanada just allowed the euthanasia of a person, who listed as his reason: hearing loss. The case is not unique. The Netherlands practices euthanasia of disabled babies. One doctor and the parents must agree on the diagnosis, prognosis and confirm unbearable suffering. This is not abortion of a child in the womb but living babies expected to live and breathe on their own. The practice of ritual killing and human sacrifice of disabled children (seen as "mercy killings to spare the children from enduring painful disabilities) have been reported from Nigeria, Uganda, Swaziland, Liberia, Tanzania, Namibia, Zimbabwe, Mozambique, and Mali. Disgustingly, it involves the practice of extracting body parts, blood or tissue from a living child.

Andrew Boivin

Then the humans came up with the neck one in the head?

BigSneppy

I’m hoping someone tells Talpin about Beethoven

T___

I think we all need to know where he ends up.

EliasArt2Life

@PhycoKrusk Technically, I would argue we don’t fall into herd OR pack creatures; our ancestors lived in communities closer to herds, but with some pack behavior, then that pack behavior developed as we became nomadic predators, but then we settled down and adopted more herd-like behaviors again. In other words, I think we are a combination of the two/somewhere in the middle. I wonder if there’s a word/term for that…

un_pogaz

I recently had this epiphany: In fact, Talpin's treatment is normal in a herd, because herds are selfish formations. Yes, it's a gathering of individuals to protect themselves from predators, but there's no attachment between individuals. No member of the herd will act to defend or help another member of the herd (with the exception of parents). Also, a herd doesn't defend itself against predators, it flees them until the weakest can no longer keep up, "abandoning" them to the predators to stop the hunt. There is never any real mutual aid between its members. The word "herd" that he uses and boasts about is not hypocritical: it perfectly matches the behavior of the individuals in the Federation. They really are herds, in all their selfishness. For me, "Herd" is now part of the list of words that will disappear under the Coalition, along with "Prey", "Predator" and "Predatory disease". A strongly pejorative words, with strong connotations of the distopian Federation tyranny.

Yannis Morris

Okay since we know of at least one human-made movie meant to be distributed to alien life: Do you think there was some guy who was like “Okay just plug me into your closed captions so I can install the translated dialogue” and then someone’s like “Plug it into the what?”?

sticksnstones

Aww, the sign language part is gonna be great

EliasArt2Life

@Yannis Morris He’s probably going to cry when a human, someone outside of his family who doesn’t have a genetic responsibility to do so, treats him like an actual person, and not like he’s “less than” a complete Gojid.

PhycoKrusk

@Elias Thank goodness the human herd has people (incidentally like me) who believe in survival through expansive knowledge and superior firepower: Figure out how to make the herd unattractive to predation, and if that is not possible, make the herd too dangerous for predation. Why sacrifice the elderly, the infirm, or the disabled if we don't have to? Let's face it: We're humans. Even if we have to sacrifice them, we're still going to put up a fight over it, and I hope it stays that way for a long time.

EliasArt2Life

That is why I feel the Federation has put zero effort into helping people with permanent physical disabilities. How much does it take to think, “we have a computer that can write things down, and an app to take notes, why don’t we use that to write down what we’re saying to the deaf kid? Apparently too much, because despite how they say that predators consider the disabled a waste and strain on the gene pool, their actions show that they think that way too. @PhycoKrusk Agreed 100%. The thing about herds is that the are (primarily) formed to create a large group so that if predators DO attack, each member has a decreased chance of dying. Survival through the misfortune of others.

PhycoKrusk

That's just it, and I think something that was not well understood (or understood at all) until very recently: The translator _doesn't_ hook into the brain at all. It's implanted into the ear, translates what it hears, and then repeats the translated speech back to you. It's basically a hearing aid with Google Translate built into it, which is why Talpin doesn't benefit from one: He might well have one (all Feddies get one), but since he can't hear anything, he naturally can't hear it either.

Amanda Chowning

Humans clearly already have this technology. So I feel this is less of a reflection of the Federation’s technological levels or a plot hole, and more of a reflection of how little they care about the disabled. Even if it’s a human speaking, it’s still coming in on a Federation TV and they probably simply never bothered to get CC.

Blake S

I wonder if we will get to see what happens to them after cilanys interview, as far as i can remeber they were ejected from his office and never brought up again. I assume thier okay since no one expresses any concern about them in later chapters.

EliasArt2Life

I just want to mention how powerful the first line is: “They didn’t know I could lipread.” That… immediately just hit hard. It is rare I find opening lines that summarize everything I’m about to read so effectively.

Yannis Morris

Do you think Talpin’s going to cry when a human says something like “The entire point of society is to support you”?

EliasArt2Life

I have a problem with your use of the SINGULAR tense in this comment. (Joking)

EliasArt2Life

Unfortunately, that is a common reaction to physical and mental disabilities even with humans today. And I’m not saying that anyone will outright say it, because only something like .3% actually would. I know that I’ve experienced that reaction to my autism. It’s not like they say anything; in fact if you asked, they’d probably say that’s not true at all, and I think they believe it, but their actions tell the real story. People will treat you in ways they wouldn’t treat other human beings. Sometimes they’ll just act like you don’t have feeling to hurt, or treat you like a simulated human. Simply put, there’s a reason that lots of inhuman characters (androids, robots, aliens, AI, etc) are coded based on mental disorders. Luckily, not everyone is this way, but it does weigh on you over time.

EliasArt2Life

I glad we get to see more from Talpin again. He was one of the minor characters I really wanted to know more about. I thought this during NOP1, but I REALLY hate how the Federation claimed that predators culled the weak and disabled, but they really have never been that much better. The mentally disabled are tortured to death in Predator Disease Facilities, and the physically disabled are pariahs. Talpin is allowed to live, but it’s clear that most people would be okay with removing him from the gene pool, or using him as a tool with no inherent value (arguably WORSE than just killing him), if they didn’t have to keep up the pretense of morality and empathy. They are a space age civilization and have apparently put ZERO effort into helping people with Talpin’s condition (or other conditions) live normal lives. The chapter when Talpin was introduced in NOP1 was when it really hit me that humanity ISN’T actually that far behind the Federation in terms of medical technology; we just invested research into other fields, like disability research, rather than the Federation which went all in on mainstream medical tech. Finally, I really, REALLY hate Talpin being called a “burden”. That is one of the worst and most hurtful things you can say to ANYONE who is disabled.

Andrew Boivin

Dude, hope you keep this up past where the humans show up and show him sign language. I know a lot of stuff is from fanfics (like subtitled translators, etc.), but I’d figure with the translators hooking into your brain that they’d have something to help deaf people. Though it makes sense they wouldn’t even try.

mitsos_pr

Oh, a reply from the author himself! Thank you for this great series, it is one of the best works of art I have ever seen :)

Space Paladin

My plan was originally to have time skips, but I’ve been inspired by the cradle happenings and the camps. While I’ll have at least one that takes place post-67, I’m not sure if I’ll tackle it as more of an epilogue just to show where he winds up!

Space Paladin

Thank you!

Space Paladin

Thank you! It is a bit of a vintage feel; I enjoyed going back to this time frame, especially realizing we never got a look at the cradle before it was destroyed or a POV of a Gojid refugee!

mitsos_pr

This story seems awesome! Makes me a bit nostalgic for the start of NOP1 :)

PhycoKrusk

They are one big herd, and "proper prey" recognize that the elderly, the infirm and the disabled must, when the situation demands it, be sacrificed so that the rest of the herd can go on living.

PassengerNo

The lack of closed captions for Noah's speech greatly upsets me. My grandmother was born deaf. I knew that tv got closed captions after she had children (she was in a newspaper article about it). But accorded to wikipedia, CC was not mandatory until 1996!! The tech itself was debuted in 1972. And I thought CC was made mandatory in 1980s. :/

Apogee

I love it! Excited for this mini series

Elliott

This must be the one we saw at the refugee camp all the way back in the early chapters. I actually love the gojid so this'll be a small treat. Also "not fully Gojid" Jesus Christ, imagine being called less than human because you're deaf or blind or mute. These gojid aren't just unempathetic, they're practically Nazis.

Lokyar

Talpin was the deaf gojid the humans rescued, and brought Sovlin in to figure out why he was being sheltered and hidden. This man is predestined to be pissed.

Yannis Morris

If Federation observations overlap with humans having better Disability care than the Federation then this man is going to be pissed

Tazeell

Ah back to old federation eh? Quite the horrid hellhole as always. Should be interesting to watch the invasion from the Gojid side.

Adam Myers

Did it though? Or did it use the humans to purify its message and create for itself a remnant? (There is a good fic that explores this) A Mothers Lament (I didn’t write it)

Adam Myers

I loved it too.

Adam Myers

As far as scanning tech, it isn’t like they have transcription. Further, their ideology is centered on doing things for the “herd”. For people with disabilities, it is the responsibility of the herd to look out for weaker “prey”. Independence, like that granted by having even a sign language (tail language being not designed for this purpose) is outside the realm of things the fed sees as worthwhile.

Thrownawaz

Oh, you noticed!

Sobek

I remember this Gojid. Having him as the focus of a miniseries is a damn good idea.

Almatty

I hope that gets included. Would be so fun.

BiasMushroom721

Ooooooo! Yea! Also just a funny thought but the great protector wouldnt lift a finger against humans who had no desire to hunt. But it did fail to stop the Predatory actions of both the Federation and Dominion

Rick VanHoute

It is very sad to see what he has to go through from his people in his own hometown.

Rick VanHoute

I love this story already. I always wished we got to see more of their character and what he went through. My significant other is currently teaching me ASL and BSL, so it lines up perfectly for me. Will we get to see what happens to him after Cilaney's interview?

Yannis Morris

The Federation: Where your optimism and trust are betrayed! (AKA: “It can’t be that bad” “It absolutely is”)

Byron Ritchie

>says the deaf and blind shoudl be left to die >then talks about how predators can’t feel empathy unlike them Yeah even the imperium of man ain’t that hypocritical They’re close though

Ottwo

Ah the Federation, where the official slogan is “No matter how bad you think we are, it gets worse”

Paperclip

Yeah. I meant thay he'll flip fast like Mallin and not take forever to get over Fed brainwashing

OctupleThreat

Was, past tense. Thankfully. The Federation and the world after the Federation is written so well, with just enough context, to really feel like a history lesson and nonfiction set in the era of that lesson.

Jonathan Cardoso Mota

I mean, we know he winds up starting liking humans and even speaks in their defense later after he gets his aid

Yannis Morris

Okay so there is a severe problem in the Federation

Yannis Morris

Truueeee

Yannis Morris

“ My father was the town’s plant musician, as part of the ancient Gojid belief that crops bloomed better with tunes gracing their leaves” I mean they do tho. Also talking to them

Jason Young

There was a fanfic I liked that has the Protector watching what has happened to her children cause of the federation like a mortified mother

Ciberj1

Human made cochlear implants say hi

Ciberj1

Yeah they're gonna love that. After it breaks them fully

un_pogaz

September 21, 2136, 2 days before the Cradel attack. We couldn't be more in line with the definition of "initial situation before the disturbing element". And holy shit, what an asshole village. Didn't a single one of them think to use their pad? Did they even take the time to teach him how to read and write?! And the comments, god, the comments. Even in the Middle Ages we did better. What a merciless, empathy-less, monstrous predator we are. I'm mad as hell. Fuck the Federation and its speech "We're all one big united herd", what hypocritical bullshit. ... Oh my god, I wrote the paragraph above before he suggested using it as bait. Finally, I think the fact that the Cradel was glazed is a good thing. I'm so mad. >Heroes like Captain Sovlin were still out there, Hero who proposed to bombing cities for mercy the inhabitant. It just came back to me right now. It really sucked from him, even at the time. >I’d be a hero, just like the selfless Sovlin…and maybe that would finally change how Gojids talked about me. I could be remembered as more than the deaf kid who’d never be a full sapient. And there, a mischievous god heard this prayer and leaned in with a smile "Oh, you will."

Swan

I do hope this series goes a little further then cannon; I'd like to know what happend to Talpin and his sister

Diosjenin

Ahhh, I’m glad to see these characters getting picked back up! Always felt like they were a loose thread in the main story after rescuing Cilany. Looking forward to more!

Jason Young

Cant wait for Talpin to learn what one of the most famous Classical Terran Composer Mozart's disability was Edit Meant Beehtoven

Delta

I just finished catching up on the rest of the series legitimately 10 mins ago Perfectly timed. Thank you!

oobanooba

Looking good, will have to see where this goes.

Reno Miller

Up at 0500 surprising day for me

Corporal Chunk

Now i just cannot wait for the invasion

Paperclip

The Feds had brain scanning technology and didn't even try to get this guy a hearing aid or just ANYTHING, really. But I don't know why I'm acting surprised. Poor Talpin thinks he's worthless! I bet he's gonna pull a Mallin and quickly switch to liking humanity (at least after he gets his aid, but idk if this miniseries will go that far and I don't remember the dates) since he's already an outcast and not being killed immediately.

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