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The Nature of Predators 171

🕑 Added 2023-11-20 12:00:04 +0000 UTC

Comments

Illwood

A house and 2 million dollars please 🥺

pogman

I think you completely misread his character, at this point he is racist just to keep some stability in the crew, Onso and the other miss that stability. Other than that, he's old and has sacrified a lot for humanity while hating himself, what else do you want?

PhycoKrusk

@Lvm I was going to write a rebuttal, but I can't think of any arguments to make that are very convincing.

PhycoKrusk

Some of them, sure. But that's not enough to completely silence them; that isn't going to happen until Sovlin stops thinking of himself as a failed person.

PhycoKrusk

Well, I guess that just means that Onso is less spiteful and more empathetic then you are.

Julien Barrette

Chad Isif for the win.

Adam Myers

Yes, but humanity is operating as a separate military grouping. Given humanity's military prowess compared to that of the rest of the SC (as well as the fact that some members in the SC military aren't necessarily pro-human), it make the most sense to look at the raid in the Aafa system to be a human action with support from allies, rather than a SC action. Hence, human ships are positioned in different areas from their SC partners and have different mission parameters. In the future, the SC might reform into something more coherent, but as of now this is the most efficient way to fight. Another way to think of this is akin to the US and NATO on a mission. Imagine if NATO was seen as militarily inept and with multiple troops being deathly afraid of the US. In that circumstance, while the US would be a member of NATO, it would have its own priorities and organization.

Tyler Ellis

He’s got Hunter and Vysyth waiting on him back on Earth, I’d hope that would be enough for him to leave some suicidal thoughts behind.

Tyler Ellis

Maybe it’s me misreading but why is it worded as if the SC are a separate entity from humanity. Isn’t humanity a member of the SC?

Illwood

Honestly think both of these are terrible takes, Onso lost his entire life to the very racism that Sovlin constantly spouts. You're right, Sovlin has had so many rugs pulled out from under him and the dude is still a gigantic dick to Onso for no reason whatsoever. Fundimentally he has not changed at all, still believing himself to be superior not only to Onso but to humanity as a whole. His crisis isn't the betrayal of his people by the federation but rather the lost of his perceived innocence in the matter. If given the chance Solvin would ban humanity from eating meat entirely, because he still believes in the federation propaganda he was raised on at a basic level and his trauma stems from having to confront the fact that he is no better then the beasts around him. He still doesn't see humanity or himself as equal to "prey" species despite ample time and evidence to prove the opposite. There comes a time where ignorance falls away into malice, like breaking a law you didn't know existed while driving: If you want to drive it's up to you to know the laws involved, you can't use ignorance as an excuse. Solvin tortured someone nearly to death for fucks sake, he has a human "son" and he still can't see Onso as a legitimately smart person? Because of his species? No, Onso isn't the same as Solvin. Solvin is the guy speaking in Onso's ear. Onso should fucking hate the dude, anyone with half a functioning brain in his position having suffered what he suffered would.

Illwood

Honestly getting really sick of Solvin as a character, dude is pretty much an irredeemable racist asshole at this point and everyone (including two people who are massively traumatised by the very racism he spouts all the time, Sam with her family and Oslo with his... Entire life?) Is just like "Oh I sure do miss that prickly bastard." No, the dudes had ages to repent or learn differently in any shape or form and has barely nudged himself in the right direction. He is just such an irritating asshole at this point...

Adam Myers

Now, we just need to deal with he Kolshian who will probably start surrendering. I doubt the shadow fleet are all suicidally fanatical enough to throw their lives away if the battle looks like it will become unwinnable. The question is, how will the SC and the Duerten deal with that.

Cera Treascair

My money's on Sovlin getting back, taking his station, nodding at Tyler... and unable to hide the fact that *something* happened that's absolutely gut him emotionally. Bonus points if Sovlin apologizes for all of his bullshit.

Some Lvm

@PhycoKrusk actually - we have plenty of evidence to the contrary: 1. We know from the archives the Kolshians handed information on how to build ships with FTL to the Arxur. This is part of their uplift process - they do an "infodump" they don't hand them ready to fly ships. 2. Every species in the Federation seems to have different ships, which means they design and build them on their own. Even if they got the original instructions from the Kolshians, that still requires understanding. 3. Onso - he was trained by the Feds to maintain ships and how the different systems on them worked. I think you are confusing ease of use of technology with understanding of it. Its not like the Kolshians are manufacturing all the tech and just handing it ready to use to every planet. And we know they can't have completely automated factories, since they don't even have self driving cars. (Fed species in general lack automation compared to humans). So they must have engineers and technicians who do understand so they can make and maintain all the stuff. They never had the pressure to advance above a certain point, similar to how our advancement in space travel almost stopped once the pressure of the cold war was removed. But now that the pressure is on, I think they can pull through, at least some of them. As for Talsk: didn't humanity arrest and take away all the surviving leaders (with some committing suicide to avoid arrest) before closing the cage? I don't think they have any government left to overthrow, but it might be interesting to see what leadership they came up with during their isolation. @Valerie Morton no doubt it will take the Feds a long time to be able to match earth hackers, but they can always implement drastic measures to significantly reduce the attack surface. In Battlestar Galactica they had huge ships with no central computer system. The Battlestars, as advanced as they were, had a number of small independent computers that were never connected to anything besides the specific system they controlled. This was done because they couldn't fight off Cylon hacking, so they didn't even try. They just made sure there was nothing to hack.

Valerie Morton

Not to mention that humanity probably has a dedicated class of people who's only joy is hacking systems for fun and profit. If you figure that the Federation hasn't had a problem with hackers in the past, its going to take some time to adapt to the attacks that the very angry hackers of earth can aim in their direction. And the humans will just keep adapting their attacks.

Byron Ritchie

As a Star Trek fan seeing the faction called the dominion being the one to betray the bad guys (which call themselves the federation ironically enough) is pretty funny Also “Sovlin, Samantha, and Carlos wouldn’t return for a little while longer” 😢

richfiles

Cheif-Hunter Isif in a stylish fren hat.

richfiles

As a residential IT technician... I can assure you that people are dumb enough to fall for malware scams repeatedly... The Feddies are even dumber yet.

PhycoKrusk

@Lvm I generally agree with you: The best defenses against drones would be particle cannons or lasers, or something that's faster-than-lightspeed, but the technology hasn't gotten to the point where it can be practically used in this way. Evidenced by the fact that in this era of plasma, laser, and particle cannons, basically every ship is still carrying kinetic munitions because with kinetics, the only time to need power is when you're aiming them. They might fill a lot of volume, but as long as you can set off the primer, they will work even when it's dark. Which does mean that the best defenses against drones at this point in the story is good old fashioned electronic countermeasures: Even the best radar can, under the correct circumstances, be fooled by a piece of aluminum foil.

PhycoKrusk

@Lvm Not a lot to pick apart here, but a couple points I wanted to throw in: 1) The loyalist species don't have to be morons to fall for another cyberattack if they they don't actually know how their computer systems work. Now, we don't have any evidence that this is the case, but given how everything in the Federation appears to operate solely on "plug-n-play", it's not a wholly unreasonable assumption either. Could they figure it out and take effective action if they actually sit down and think about it without a Kolshian holding their hand? It would seem unreasonable to me to think that they can't, but who really knows? That said, whether they can at all is going to depend on the amount of societal damage caused by unrest. (For all we know, the Coalition could remove the Kessler cage from around Talsk and discover, surprise, the citizenry was so pissed off that they overthrew the government and replaced it with one that's... not really any better, but that can at least be negotiated with) 2) Even if the Coalition is repelled from Aafa, nobody is going to be in any position to do anything to anyone. The Coalition will need time to recover its losses, the Federation - or what's left of it - will need time to get its feet back under it (and that's assuming that whatever is left of the Commonwealth fleet isn't wrapped up securing its immediate surroundings), and the Dominion is very firmly in the throes of civil war. Humanity may not win here, but they won't lose either. I don't know, but it's looking more and more like NoP2 will be a saga of warring states.

Some Lvm

Maybe, but if they do manage to keep humans from landing on Aafa, or successful repel them once they do land, I wouldn't put it past the Kolshians to be able to turn the situation around. It will be difficult, but they have manipulated several hundred species for over a millennia successfully, and that is not the kind of enterprise to be dismantled in a day. The problem with cyberattacks is that they are not very repeatable. Unless you want to assume that all those Fed loyalists are complete morons, once they figure out what is going on they will start taking precautions and hardening their system, making the next attacks more difficult and less wide spread. Also, if humanity is repelled before subduing Aafa, they will have to lick their wounds too. The losses up to this point are already staggering, and some of the allies that helped turn this battle will not be making a repeat appearance if a second invasion is to be attempted. So no, I wouldn't count my squdlings before the are hatched...

Some Lvm

@PhycoKrusk from what we see in this chapter - the issue with lasers is the time it takes to lock on and aim them. If a whole lumbering battle ship can dodge the aim of a laser, a drone would have no issue with them. Another thing is, we don't really see ships firing lasers - plasma yes, slugs too, but even the shadow fleet isn't really doing it (unless I missed something). I suspect the reason lasers are relegated to stationery planet defense is their power consumption. Even plasma in the NoP universe is slow to recharge, so presumably a laser powerful enough to punch through armor would require a sizeable reactor to supply it. NoP is trying to be somewhat "hard" on the science front and lasers are not all they are cracked up to be. Now particle cannons are another thing - if they can be made more in to a "shotgun" configuration. If you can keep sufficient damage generation while spreading out the flow of particles, aiming would be less of a problem. I think for now though, the best weapon against drones would be sensor trickery. https://hackaday.com/2022/11/22/spoofing-lidar-could-blind-autonomous-vehicles-to-obstacles/ https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=p6CfR3Wpz7Y (The video is about patterns that confuse computer vision) And if real world humanity is discovering this type of things now, the fictional 2137 humanity is probably excellent at it while also have at least some defenses against it as well. It would just be a matter of figuring out how to most efficiently deploy these tactics in space, something humanity didn't have much time to do since discovering they weren't the only one's with drones.

Conner Deese

Imagine Onso's shock I'd Sovlin comes back and says nothing no racism no snark just sadness and unrelenting anger at the squids

PhycoKrusk

I think that Onso "gets it" on a level that nobody else really does. Sure. Humanity has had to deal with Earth being bombed, with losing families among the billion other lost, and to be targeted simply because of what they are: Sovlin is dealing with all of that, plus the knowledge that everything he knows about himself is a complete fabrication, that his culture has been overwritten and replaced with a facsimile (and not even a very good one), and that no matter what he does with his life from here forward, he's always going to have that voice in his head asking, "Is this me, or is this the Federation?" Things that would have happened to Onso's descendants if not for the intervention of Humanity; he has the unique position of being able to look at Sovlin and not only what might have been, but what almost was. To an extent, I think he does perceive malice in Sovlin's remarks, because there isn't really any way to read them without at least *some* malice. But then he thinks back to that day when they had him watch the demolition of the trains, with that Gojid whispering into his ear everything that was coming next, and sees the difference between him and Sovlin being that he could swing at fist at his oppressor, and while it may have amounted to little at the time, it was still an opportunity to resist that Sovlin never had. In short, just as Sovlin is what Onso sees in the funhouse mirror, Onso is what Sovlin sees: Just as Sovlin is what Onso's future could have been if Humanity hadn't found the Yotul in time, Onso is what Sovlin's present might have been if they had found Gojid in time. As hard as it can strike to look at something and think, "I could've been him if things had been different," I think it strikes even harder to look at them and think, "He could've been me if things had been different."

Cheesy Power

It’s fascinating to see that Onso is actually fond of Solvin’s constant jabs at him- I think he understands the true motives behind Solvin’s racist remarks better than the majority of the reader-base, since he doesn’t seem to attribute any genuine malice to it.

Cheesy Power

The man has been actively suicidal for a while now. Heck, he’s wanted to die on some level or another ever since his family died.

PhycoKrusk

Just leaving a note here, it's not really relevant to this chapter: The more I think about it, the I convince myself that Sovlin volunteered for the insanely dangerous combat jump, and told Sam his "last request", is because he was hoping to die. Maybe not consciously, maybe not at the front of his mind, but he looked at what he'd be going into and told himself, "Yes, this is it. I'm finally out." Another suicide charge that didn't go the way he needed it to. Sovlin is a black cat.

PhycoKrusk

The only problem with that is that, since there is no gravity or air resistance in space, any such flak will pose a hazard to literally the rest of the universe until it moves close enough to a gravity well and crashes into something. Plus, there are hard limits on how fast flak can actually travel. Honestly, the best defenses against drones will be lasers and particle cannons; anything that travels at lightspeed will be difficult to account for. The best weapons against them will require more miniaturization, because munitions that travel faster-than-lightspeed will be almost impossible to avoid, especially in space where contact distances will be measured in lightseconds.

EliasArt2Life

I’m calling this as the point of no return for the Kolshians. Even if they win, the Arxur will be too divided to utilize again, their allies are going to be very reluctant to fight (due to the Kolshians working with the Arxur, the recording that humanity will no doubt leak to them, and the fact that the Kolshians will likely do nothing to protect them from future cyber attacks that will definitely come if the aid the Kolshians), and the planetary defenses will be destroyed making Aafa less impenetrable for next time. Even with their insane manufacturing capacity, there’s just too many things working against them; all the stability they need to fully utilize that manufacturing power will be gone. Most of the species who followed them out of fear will likely switch sides, seeing the Kolshians whittled down to a fraction of their former fleet power. The Kolshian citizens will not enjoy the fact that their government held them hostage, or tricked some of them onto suicide craft (I doubt they can cover that up well enough). The Secret Police can help maintain order a little, but with this much shared knowledge, I think this is beyond even the Secret Police. Especially on colony worlds.

PhycoKrusk

I don't suspect that Sovlin will go after Onso much anymore; after this, I don't think he's going to have it in him to do much of anything. Or, if he does, it's going to be so extreme and over-the-top that it'll be clear to everyone that the war finally got to him.

PhycoKrusk

Given his propensity for self-destruction, it seems more likely that they would rally under Usliff, because Ilthiss is already dead.

PhycoKrusk

All hail the Prophet-Ascendant!

PhycoKrusk

@Blake Wriss *had* a sizeable defense fleet. From the shape of things, most of it was at Aafa, and now whatever's happened, any semblance of order has evaporated. If they get beaten back from Aafa, then I might actually be right and we'll see a breakdown of the Dominion into a scattering of warring kingdoms, the ex-Federation species struggling to do their housekeeping, and the Coalition in the middle trying to keep the peace.

Lokyar

I don't think sovlin is coming back. I suspect he volunteered for laser duty.

Mr. Walker

Nop 2: Electric Boogaloo.

Mr. Walker

I keep wondering if you could beat a drones maneuverability with something like a box-barrage. You just point at a square in the sky that the drone has to move through to get where it is going and fill that space with cheap/hard to detect munitions or flak.

kenneth Moore

With everything he did… They should erect a statue in his honor, one with Felra perched on his head.

Yannis Morris

Sovlin: *(gets back and calls Onso the word)* Onso: Carlos is dead. Sovlin: HOW DA- Onso: And that is one of the only reasons I’m not snapping your neck right now. But I swear, if you ever call me that again, I’ll make what Tyler did to you look like a f**king lovetap

Again, Isif shows he is a main political player and strategist in this universe. His movements, inside and outside the battlefield have bigger consecuenses and implications that many of the movements from other characters in this universe. The reptilian is quite a leader, one of the finest.

Blake S

Very easy to be loose threads for nop 2, sounds like wriss has a sizeable defense fleet and the sapient coalition forces are cooked. They got isif newly turned rebels but the SC barely wants to to tolerate herbivore survivors, how are we gonna get the former enemies to play nice in the long run.

Gavin Pierce

Ehh, they give humanity any time and we’ll very quickly outpace their capabilities. Especially if they give us time to dismantle the rest of their federation allies(definitely glassing the Yulpa) theyd show back up alone, to human fortress worlds that the entire fleet defending Aafa wouldnt be able to take

Paperclip

The shadow fleet is really finished after this. Now all that's left is to tell the public that the conspiracy leaders "committed suicide."

DemonVee

My fingers are crossed that some Dominion forces will flip over to Isif's side so that they could aid them directly. However, giving that he's not here, it's likely that Arxur wouldn't join a leader who wasn't in battle unless they knew he was holding proper power. My guess is that the majority of Arxur in Aafa's system will either side with Ilthiss or perish. Leaving maybe two/three factions left. Between Isif's Rebels, Ilthiss' Orthodox Arxur and Giznel's Dominion Forces. When it comes to Wriss, I imagine Humanity will be there to help Isif even if they're battered, but I hope that Isif going from system to system will grant him enough forces to take the majority of power and be able to take on the Dominion before Ilthiss makes the power grab, and that Giznel will have enough sense to surrender to Isif instead of going into a three sided war.

HiMyNameIsFelipe

Something tells me somone, somehow, sent a little recrding of a conversation to all ships

Izzet

Chief Hunter Isif needs to be protected at high cost after this. He could be the leader preventing further Arxur wars in the near future and putting them on a new path. It would not be good if there was an Arxur power vacuum now.

DemonVee

Honestly, I'd be surprised if they haven't left the planet already. Space is unimaginably vast, they could have secret colonies right under everyone's noses (Hell, from the sound of it that's what the Dominion was doing with their farm worlds.) and they could just bide their time while building up a bigger army. (I'm also wondering if there will be any truth to my theory of Aafa not being the Commonwealth's true homeworld or capital.)

John Benjamin Cate

Woo! The trap is sprung and the enemy alliance is destroyed! What amazing chaos this has brung! Now push forward, we cannot let the conspiracy regain its footing!

paintmelikeyoudoyoursheilas

My main man chief siffy is the god damn galactic MVP at this point. He has done so god damn much to improve the galaxy and is the reason so much societal change has occurred. Even if he were to die tomorrow his legacy will live on for generations.

Jonathan Cardoso Mota

So Isif's gambit worked. As always, every time, that man swoops in from mist to save the day. A true winged hussar he is. And it seems like it has turned into a true clusterfuck :D And hey, good news, the duerten bombers are using their paylods!

Alekss Žukovskis

unfortunately, i think i know where this is going. the shadow fleet will escape to somewhere. ending the ... current season on fighting their guerilla warfare incursions.

Alekss Žukovskis

dammit

Alekss Žukovskis

first

Come on Sapient Coalition, you can win this!!!!!!!!

Caleb Carter

Third!

print Path

First

Jackson Hazeltine

First!


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