Post "Skateboarder Artist Tier List" by "Gifted Hater" from patreon

Boomer Johnston

should have talked about sebo walkers ass art

switchfrontnoseslide

good job dr barrow

Seb

Nora V?

Sam Putnam

Definitely include Mike Lottie in the next one

fs

jamal williams

Pierre Pressure

good job doctor barrow

TPB3333

I agree that barry mcgee's stuff is kind of corporate, but c'mon ted, google corporate art and you get exactly marbies stuff. Typing this as I'm watching so I might exactly say what GH is gonna say haha. Not to say that marbies stuff is not executed well, but it's just very redundant at this point

Manuel Salcedo

The content I didn't know I needed🙏🙏

Fallas paredes

Michael Alvarez⭐️

Michael Gasparovich

jon worthington, nick merlino, ludvig. def enough people to do a part 2

1-800-dotcom

Spanky and Sebo Walker

Ethan Kulish

joe roberts/LSDworldpeace?

migi

next jaakko ojanen and arto saari photos!!!!

Dan

Just want to throw Ryan Sublette in there :)

migi

good job doctor

AP

Agreed. We're all guilty of being ignorant at different points in our lives, myself obviously included. If we avoid having these conversations entirely, then people miss out on the opportunity to grow. Thanks for engaging with my comments thoughtfully.

tristan smith

good job doc

Theodore Barrow

Let’s hope. Jensen is dope.

Theodore Barrow

3) not saying it’s admirable. It’s actually pretty lame, but I think, especially for those older guys, there’s been a learning curve concerning that stuff that they haven’t really caught up to. I can’t put myself in his shoes, or any skater who grew up in that second wave of post-punk who learned from surfers, but I’ve had enough direct encounters with him to know that 1) very little of what he does or how he acts is premeditated or deliberately edgy, and 2) he’s definitely not trying to condone the acceptance of fascist imagery in that series. We’re all learning here, some of us have better resources and more compassionate an patient friends than others, and maybe I wrongly choose to give him the benefit of the doubt. You can’t really re-define swastika after ww2.

Theodore Barrow

It would probably be just a curb in Pasadena or something

Theodore Barrow

All good. You make some good points and I went back and reconsidered Barry McGee’s work. You’re absolutely right: I cherry-picked a couple aspects of his work that had more to do with a bad COLLAB with Baker than his practice as an artist. His work is a lot more expansive and interesting than what I commented on, and I humbly stand corrected 🙇🏻‍♂️

Theodore Barrow

I live in the Bay Area, and the scene here is SATURATED with terrible late-Matisse imitators (many of whom also show at Hashimoto, Marbies gallery). I base my subjective judgment on what I’ve seen of her work and in consideration of all the bad versions of similar work that I’ve seen. I happen to like it, but that doesn’t mean I’m right. I study late 19th century watercolors of Florida. What do I know?

Walter Farris

Would love to see another one of these. I’ll mention Spanky, Lucas Beaufort, Paul Kobriger, J. Grant Brittain, and Matt Blease. Also think the skateboard music tier list would be sick Good job Dr. Barrow 👍

Patrick Smith

This is really interesting

J O

Second this. Sage, Figgy, Barbee, Matt Hensley, Na-Kel, Genesis Evans, Jamal Smith (PoptartPete) r all sick

Wilsot666

This is great thanks so much

Scottie

Touché, Dr. Barrow. Faith in your critique restored. Thank you for engaging respectfully with my caffeine-induced aggression.

Theodore Barrow

🤺 perfectly executed, my liege

dylan lewis

If Jason dill had an opportunity to go on joe rogan or Howard stern, but only under the proviso that he isn’t allowed to smoke at all during the interview do you think he would do it?

Top Gruyere

Skate musician tier list please king. Tommy Guerrero, Gillette, Bam etc

technofaza g

yall could also talk about artists who are well known within the skateboarding world for their art and not their skateboarding, like vcj, marc mckee, sean cliver, kevin ancell, andy jenkins, mike hill, jim phillips…

Larry David's Prius

completely agree on the puleo critique. definitely one of the more interesting skaters out there.

angcient_rock

Hey, the man himself! Yeah, I agree. This was kind of a narrow-minded take on my part. My concept of art and standards for it aren't any more valid than other people's, and probably not even consistent anyways. But I'd say your comment is interesting, and therefore art 😉

tumblr3000

Ted likes bionicles🙂

AP

1) This isn't the only piece, there's another I linked in my original comment that also employs a swastika with characters in a volkswagon. 2) Addressing your point on context of multiple priests, one priest is depicted with the star of david and the other has a swastika alongside the phrase "white power". There's nothing obvious in the work that implies one priest is worse than another. The fact that he made so many, sold them all at the same price, and that they all share materials / size / shape implies their equality (concerning). If I was an artist creating work with powerful white supremacist symbols, I would provide context to make sure it wasn't misinterpreted. This seems at a minimum irresponsible. 3) Which do you think is more reasonable: that Gonz used hate symbols out of ignorance for shock value in a handful of his older works (not saying he's truly a fascist) or that this is some brilliant, nuanced satire done with racist imagery that we should all admire?

Scottie

Tough shit, I guess.

Peter Tanner

They’re not brothers but they are both from Denver. @576757571111111.10

Theodore Barrow

Is that maxipoooo’s brother

Theodore Barrow

Next vid. Gloves off

Theodore Barrow

Thank you! My only response is that art—however it is defined-doesn’t have to be “sacred.” It can be pointless, ugly, stupid, good, whatever. It’s only real requirement is that it be interesting (unlike my comment, maybe)

Theodore Barrow

Luckily this isn’t the normal thing, and maybe I was a little dismissive and jaundiced in both cases, but yeah. People act weird. Like there’s some kind of cognitive dissonance between my not being a huge fan of Barry McGee, liking Marbies art, and still being capable of writing a thoughtful review in Juxtapoz (whose subject was, actually, how looking closely at art can change your first impression of something). The irony.

Theodore Barrow

With this one piece.

Theodore Barrow

I’m not the artist, so I cant speak for them, but fascist symbols and imagery have been appropriated and used in an anti-fascist context before, especially by artists. Also, since art uses symbols for things other than one singular message (unlike, say, politics) and also considering that Gonz has done literally hundreds of those small Pope figurines with all sorts of designs/symbols/words, it seems unlikely that he’d come out of his face and reveal himself to be a fascist.

Theodore Barrow

Thank you 🥺

Theodore Barrow

Some people do it terribly, some people do it well. I think she does it well

Theodore Barrow

He young

Theodore Barrow

Nah he was kind of always that way

Theodore Barrow

I interviewed Mike in the first issue of Closer. I’m a fan.

sillybilly

S tier video.

Maksym D Hutsulak

Congrats professor!

1

Working on a revision rn be up soon

Jimbo

Not posting content solely because a handful of people can’t engage in discourse like normal people is not the move. Just because someone goes good will hunting on your ass with their opinion on your opinion isn’t a good enough reason to not speak your mind on controversial topics. If they think they can do better, then maybe they should be the ones making videos. 🫥

Peter Tanner

Would love to see you guys talk about kyler garrison’s art. He’s probably more well now for his art now but he rips

AP

Can you explain what exactly about the statute with the words "white power" and swastikas could be considered thoughtful commentary or effective satire? You can't, because Gonz didn't provide any context for his work and seemingly used racist iconography solely to antagonize. This is all to say that Gonz is not infallible and that is a motif in his work.

genzedsdead

Yeah i was suprised they didnt mention Parra when looking at Marbie, they were (rightly) heavily critical of other derivative artists and Marbie is impossible to talk about without mentioning some of the work is identical...(i know they're both influenced by Mattise but Marbie must of been way "influenced" by Parra!!)

Shredsi

Not having heard the mp3 I can't judge but I wanna note there is a difference between actively creating a certain atmosphere (which does make you responsible) and having people overreact/take stuff out of context just to vent some of their own problems (which you're not responsible for). If you look at the world in general, we're at a crossroads, and having political conversations is more important than ever. We can't insulate entirely because that in itself would be an act of cowardice. Doesn't mean at all that every video has to be controversial from now on but you censoring yourself and going vanilla would be terrible for everybody.

Shredsi

Joa's watching too much Jordan Peterson to recover from the two irrelevant nobodies criticising him on a dying social media platform.

Shredsi

Dude wtf is this the regular user interactions you get Ted?! Im seeing this whole story about the guy that got you fired in a new light reading this thread. It reads like academia grandpa canceling his Times subscription because he doesn't agree with an article. "I've lost all respect" because of a fuxking tier list video. Have a different opinion but stop "punishing" guys for saying something bad about your crush Barry mcgee (who's work is really not that great btw). Clown.

Shredsi

While I'm always in favour of maintaining a strong front against the right and its symbols, it requires transcendent-level brain yoga to assume Gonz's usage is anything other than commentary and satire.

Shredsi

Grazie!

Shredsi

This was an awesome watch. I don't think it should replace your shitposty stuff at all but if you're still eager to branch out, this is for sure my favourite direction to go into: more brainy and informative stuff together with experts of the field in question. Thanks to you both!

1

Even just me covering the stuff on stream has lead to weird altercations in my patreon comments. This subject matter just does something weird to people and I don’t think I want to have any part of it right now. It’s stressful and it gets disrespectful/ personal way too fast. I don’t want this community of people to turn into something toxic it bums me out when I open the app and see people cursing each other out, not the environment I want to be responsible for creating

Shredsi

Goddammit I was saving that for later. Gonna have to start downloading stuff soon as its up

Kevin

Great Job and Congratulations Dr. Barrow!

Exodus

why'd you get rid of the twitter rant mp3?

Insomniakctually

I really enjoy Mike Lottie’s art; would have liked to hear your guys’ opinion on him. It’s like a mix of a doodle style with metal themes similar to neckface. It doesn’t have the raw “purposefully bad” style of neckface, but the more refined popular rounded drawing you’d associate with a cartoon while having more metal/edgy subject matter. Gives it a cool juxtaposition. Also amazed at how fast he creates his work considering most of it is pointillism.

austin

I’d like to see a “city skate scene” tier list!

xrS

good job dr barrow, its a shame marbies art is rly corporate memphis adjacent cause its quite nice : /

Chrizzler

That is cool! But I can't find the article while searching. Is it deleted?

stefanmaybe

good job dr. barrow

Miles Melo

chris milic?!

1

We’re going to have a community overhaul

Jordan

if your critique is that I cared enough to post that comment, I can simply say you cared enough to respond to it. So, are you going to cry?

Alexander Cantu

But they are on his ass tho lol

dylan lewis

He doesn’t have to lay off anything

Jordan

this was really enjoyable, but you've got to lay off the "libtards are on my ass" thing. Edit: also, that painting (i think? or mixed materials idk) at 1:01:51 is super cool, never seen it before

Chris

Was missing the Jah in this

Scottie

Lol

Theodore Barrow

Tough shit, I guess.

Armin Halvadžić

How do comment on skateboarding and don't know who Brian Lotti is.

Armin Halvadžić

S tier post righ here.

Jimbo Shrump

Do a tier list of 9 club part reviews by the skater. Mark appleyards is pretty haggard to audibly listen to.

Scottie

“Credibility” I think is my point of contention here, and I find your response particularly amusing coming from a self-proclaimed “art-critic” with their education credentials in their Instagram bio. Joa talks frequently about “credibility” throughout his content in terms of skateboarding and that’s why I mentioned it. Although after reading his response to my earlier comment, he restored any doubts I was having about his artistic integrity. I never said that I expected either of you to be a “90’s street art expert” but I would expect a self-respecting yuppie with a PhD to engage with their critical thinking skills a little better than you did here. I’ve lost all my respect for your opinion after watching this video and your subsequent reply to my call out. I will no longer be subscribed to your Patreon and hope someone with more authority checks you soon so you can take it to heart and make better informed critiques moving forward. This disappoints me as I really appreciated your recent article about Tyler Ormsby’s work and found your words there insightful and articulate. You spewed some garbage drivel in this video and I think you should be disappointed in yourself.

DG Megadoodoo

I was hoping for a deeper dive into Max Palmer...but you already kinda covered him.

Theodore Barrow

I feel your pain

dylan lewis

I used to like dill but success has turned him into such an insufferable hipster douchebag

Theodore Barrow

totally agree. I love Nick's art and Lucero is important.

Bert Ross

Particularly the work from his years before his death when he was bed ridden

Bert Ross

Was literally thinking this the whole time, she has a great understanding of colour and form but i couldnt help but see just how derivative of matisse her work is

Cman

Nick Jensen and John lucero could’ve been on the list

Berra Hater

Maybe talk about Kevin Walsh. He's done many series for Creature that are all pretty rad. I like his work way more off of skateboards, as I feel you can appreciate the pieces far more than you can when placed on a skateboard deck as medium. Tim Baron is a other guy who's done art for Creature and a few other brands, but he may be less interesting. Anyways, keep it up fellow bionicle enjoyers

Coinstar

talk about joas art

Паша Меркулов

Sebo Walker

Bluntslideofdoom

Joe Roberts S Tier

Ross Lucas

Gonz going full Tau.

J’sia Whang

John hill just made a mean comments video we must watch that please

D

Good one. Took the skate Twitter thing down?

Jimbo

Don’t you ever apologize to anyone ever.

1

I’ll upload it tomorrow onto the vod doc

angcient_rock

good job Dr. Barrow! 🙌 cool video :) liked your guys' insights and placements. cool to learn some artists and art terms from Ted too. the title of artist is kind of sacred to me, so what I'm about to say might be a little too serious or extreme. but I think a lot of skaters who try to make things tend to make random, kind of thoughtless stuff that doesn't really say anything; doesn't feel like their art expresses any interesting ideas or feelings, or is born out of any passion. like when i look at most of this stuff, i think and feel almost nothing. which honestly makes sense, 'cause i feel like most skaters aren't very cultured or deep people :-/ i think a lot of them just enjoy the process, which is fine, but that makes them closer to hobbyists than artists imo.

Danny Banegas

I liked the video, pretty interesting. I especially liked the Ed Templeton stuff cause I grew up skating basic toy machine red monster decks and when I came back to skating a few years ago I wanted to skate a toy machine cause I like the style of the art but there's just something seriously not right about the graphics (other than the red monster) that makes me uncomfortable. Like wtf is this: https://www.skatewarehouse.com/Toy_Machine_Cruiser_Sect_Complete/descpage-TMCS82CMP.html. Ig I just don't like the intensity of the humor on the bottom of a skateboard, and I also hated the Tampa park and the baker graphics but to say something more positive, I was surprised to see how many skaters make like actual pleasant art. I don't know much about art so I'd like to see more of this kinda stuff it was nice

Iridewoodlmao

Frankie Villani’s fursure

Josh Calvo

Why did ye delete the audio?

Felix Fitton

also blinkerfluid ig

Leopold

good job dr. barrow, glad u like bionicles!

Nature Table

or possibly the Barroas?

Felix Fitton

576757571111111.10 on instagram should of put him on the list

Nature Table

You and Dr Ted (congrats) need to open an indoor skatepark/benevolent media empire called the Joarrows.

1

I’ll put it on the vod doc, I think I wanna just leave it as a bonus thing cause it’s a little repetitive

Theo

Does Ted go by Ted because if he went by Theo his name would sound like wheelbarrow? Sincerely, another Theo

1

I’ll put it on the vod doc, I think I wanna just leave it as a bonus thing cause it’s a little repetitive

Cam Jimmo

Enjoyed the twitter rant; bummer to see it taken down.

Theodore Barrow

I’ve seen my fair share of Barry McGee installations, and I agree that hes up to a lot more than what we talked about. However, “credibility” has very little to do with an opinion video, and nobody is claiming to be an expert on early 90’s street art here.

Nature Table

Seems like a significant oversight to avoid mentioning Jerry Hsu’s history of fascist references in his art: https://nazigold.tumblr.com/

Jawn Shanahan

good job dr. Field

Jawn Shanahan

hi can you please put jerry in the S tier so he doesn't shut down your patreon and make you move back in with your parents

Scottie

Agreed - looks like Coachella/horrendous neo-liberal sculptures placed in deserts around California

JP

agree re kyler garrison

JP

its pretty prescriptive to insist art be appreciated/interpret/discussed in a certain way, or that one needs to be 'qualified' to speak about art as if its some sacred entity. i dont think theres anything wrong in blind responding to selected artworks and describing the reaction / aesthetic experience it provokes in you and being transparent about that being your (i.e. joa's in this instance) approach - those were also the most compelling moments of the vid in my opinion. yes more thorough research and better selected examples would be required for a serious/academic approach but it's a youtube tier list vid, its not masquerading as any authority or claiming rigorous analysis of art careers. i did expect ted to call the cutouts derivative tho..

JP

great video guys. although gotta disagree on janoski, his work is terriible

JP

i kinda like marbie's work, it uses colour and form expressively and economically to create subtly disquieting, unknowable figures, but if anything i find it wears the matisse influence too heavily to justify its height on this list. the capitalist hellscape take seems lazy to me - you could as equally argue its subjects are navigating the isolation of that very space.

1

Yeah that's all very fair, I had a chaotic week with the Twitter stuff and was underprepared in this video. Definitely could've done better on my end but I think Ted did great in this video so it's worth sharing. Next time I'll definitely do a better job

Scottie

Joa - I really appreciate your commentary about skateboarding and its current industry position, but think that you presented a gross oversimplification on a couple of the artists mentioned in this video. Using your Barry McGee section as an example, his practice extends far beyond the optical-illusory patterns. detailed caricatures. and lettering you primarily focused on in this video. Given your known interest in photography, I expected you to cover his prolific amount of photo works. Are you familiar with the image collages he displays alongside his work? i.e. did you or Ted even bother to look at one of his installations before forming the opinions you displayed here? However, I do agree with your points about the recent Baker board series visually and think that the compositions appear rushed. I think that if you are going to deliver critical opinions on artists adjacent to the sphere of skateboarding you should take more time to become familiar with their body of work as a whole and their respective ethos, as I don't think you are as qualified to speak about art in the same way you discuss skating. Your placement of Barry's work below Marbie's made me lose a lot of respect for your opinion, and I'm similarly questioning Ted's credibility given his praise of Marbie's derivative cutouts. Sincerely, a disappointed viewer and usual enjoyer of your content

evcardin

This was great, thanks fellas

1

Well you’ve convinced me

b60231

given the through-line of criticism for artistic unoriginality, it was a bit puzzling why marbie's art ranked so high given that it is stylistically and formally indistinguishable from the flat-art/corporate memphis style of our contemporary capitalist hellscape. that style of art has been played out for years and marbie's version of it unfortunately brings nothing new to the table :(

Theodore Barrow

Meh nah

AP

First - I never accused Gonz of being a Nazi, just thought it was notable that he's used swastikas / other white supremacist iconography in his art with no explanation. Second - If Gonz had given any indication that there was a explicitly satirical or thoughtful reason behind those works beyond a juvenile attempt at shock value, then I would be more than happy to give him the benefit of the doubt. Shock value alone is a deplorable reason to use racist imagery. I think the best thing to do would have been to say: Hey, Gonz has made art in the past that uses these hateful images with little context, and while we don't think he lives by these principles, this was clearly the wrong decision on his behalf.

Theodore Barrow

🤣 yeah how could I not have consulted slap on whether someone might be a Nazi for, as you say “using fascist imagery?” But that’s how oversights work. Some ideas are so stupid you don’t see them

Grant McVoy

Right. Most likely just satirical art

Theodore Barrow

I’ve already defended Nicks work on Jenkem

Grant McVoy

Could be commentary regarding a Polish salesman selling cyanide gas to the Nazis in Auschwitz. Later fearing for his life, joined Catholic Church, became youngest bishop in Poland (1958). After his predecessor was assassinated, the ex salesman assumed the papacy as Pope John Paul 2nd. Or Gonz could be a nazi lol…who knows, who cares. Don’t assume anything, find out for yourself.

Chrizzler

https://www.nickjensen.co.uk/

Chrizzler

Congratz Dr Barrow! Why no Nick Jensen on this list?

the Boy with the Black Dog

You should do Chris milic, Spanky, Pushead, Neen Williams, Jeremy Klein, Marc McKee

AP

Seems like a significant oversight to avoid mentioning Gonz's history of using fascist symbols in his art. https://www.slapmagazine.com/index.php?topic=99971.msg2807974#msg2807974 and https://dch81km8r5tow.cloudfront.net/wp-content/uploads/2013/02/Photo03_3.jpg

Bray Raab

Love you Dr Barrow

pizzafliptofakie

Great job Dr. Barrow! Would you consider ranking skaters as musicians? I know the medium is totally different, but there's some gr8 source material to be had.

fml

max and cyrus in part 2

blockmuncher

Good job Dr Barrow

Rowan D

Awesome work. Thank you

varialflipswag

Good job DR barrow

varialflipswag

You get around to checking your dm? I thought it was interesting at the very least

Max Orozco

good job dr barrow

Trader.joe

Thank you Dr. Barrow and Joa, this was great, super refreshing, and inspiring! I would love to hear you talk about kyler garrison’s paintings and also about airbrushing as a technique in general which seems to have become more popularized over the last few years.

Adam Harrison

This was a good one

oatmeal steve

we need a bionicles tier list with dr. ted

Juuls4school

Dr. Barrow got his PhD and dropped a lecture on us

J O

the H&R Block ad at the bottom of the screen reminded me to do taxes today, thank you joa

Peter Ferraro

good job Dr. Barrow

Rodrigo Santana

good job dr berra

Garrett G

good job dr. barrow! and very happy you like bionicles

Johnnybaby4ever

good job dr barrow

Theodore Barrow

It's by a painter named "Basher." He works at a place called "Hospitality House Community Arts Center" in San Francisco and, I think, lives in the Tenderloin. It's a cool place: the only art org that was open during the pandemic, and the only art I could see in person in 2020. He's a pretty trippy dude.

Giovanni morales

Good job dr barrow. I wanna know how y’all feel on Brian Andersons paintings

Dylan Cherwinski

Good job Dr Ted

Lucas Thurston

you missed the goat, Dane Vaughn

Barefoot Bomber

It would be interesting see a tier list comparing the art of Jim Phillips to other counter culture pop artists such as Ed Roth, Robert Williams, S.Clay Wilson and Pushead.

Bincent

good job 👍

Andz

Congratulations Ted! The neoliberal hellscape board is about twitter and not related to neoliberalism and what it changed the world into since the 80s? Since Jerry posted about Adam Curtis and his series "Can't Get You Out Of My Head" I thought it was related to that. But I wouldn't want to be on twitter either.

Alexander Charos

Would love to hear your thoughts on Joe Roberts art for GX

Inept Lover

Nuclear worm #1

Sleeping in Jeans

Nice job Mr. Ed. Where’s the Greyson Fletcher art. Some of the worst stuff I have ever seen. Also does Benny Magliano count as an artist since he’s like the creative director for Hockey?

Eth

I LIVE LAUGH LOVE SKATEBOARDING

Jimi Wilson

Ted collab vids are the baste

myhops

Good job Dr. Barrow! If you guys do another one I’d like to see you talk about Piet Parra (even if they’re more skateboarding-adjacent rather than a professional skateboarder)